Truth.8 replied at 9-5-2016 07:46 PM
read back your thread . you mentioned abide forever....but than again the spirit is unseen entity.....how one see physical entity?? Jesus says spirit of truth but not last messenger....so it make point to says, spirit of truth is not muhammad....it is a HOLY SPIRIT...simple as peanut but as usual you use taqiya to lie and mislead all just like zakir...
How could quran preserved or your abide forever when Jesussays spirit of truth? Is the quran spirit of truth? One moment you said isMuhammad next quran….why contradict in your statements ? . using taqiya tactic in such issue.
Another question avoid:
Why not Paul instead of Muhammad? Because Paul testify Christ crucifixion and believed Jesus is son of God but the quran denyall t hose…a kind of anti Christ. So, the comforter surly not Muhammad nor the quran....it was well frabicated tomisleads others to protect islam= taqiya
So, kind of kaki auta u and rest of muslims claiming it wasMuhammad…
Again you failed to answer in proper explanation:
U still didnot answer my question:
John 14:16-17King James Version (KJV)
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you anotherComforter, that hemay abide with you for ever;
where is muhammad now???? Or does it mean Paul not Muhammad but where are they now???
I have read the passages from the Bible that you mention in John's gospel, along with the other passages where the Lord Jesus Christ refers to the "Comforter," and it is quite obvious from them that Comforter, Holy Spirit, and Spirit of Truth are interchangeable terms, and that the Lord Jesus Christ is speaking of the same Person in each instance, the Person being referred to who you as a Muslim would presumably have us believe to be Muhammad, the prophet of Islam.
In my lengthy response which follows, I show why these 5 passages cannot, and do not refer to Muhammad.
Here are the five recorded instances in John's gospel where the Lord Jesus Christ refers to the "Comforter," "If you love Me you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept him because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you." John 14:15-17 "All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." John 14:25, 26 "When the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about Me." John 15:26 "But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment...." John 16:7, 8 "But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to Me by taking from what is Mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is Mine and make it known to you." John 16:13-15
The Greek word translated from the Koine Greek that John's gospel was written in is "parakletos" and is most often translated "Comforter," but a better translation would be "Counselor" or "Advocate," as in a legal sense.
The Lord Jesus Christ spoke to His disciples about the Comforter and said that the Comforter was the Holy Spirit. However, some 600 years later, Muhammad claimed that the Scriptures of the Jews and Christians predicted that another prophet would arise and that he (Muhammad) was that prophet. To support Muhammad's claim, early Islamic writings such as that of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasulallah state that Muhammad was the "Comforter."
Let's now let the New Testament texts speak for themselves, that is, let's seek to do careful exegesis (taking out of the Scriptures what is there), rather than eisegesis (forcing into them something that is not there). They clearly state that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. There is no ambiguity about this. Consequently Muhammad is not the Comforter based upon what the Bible explicitly states, and I will show from the Scriptures quoted, why he isn't and cannot possibly be .
When the Lord Jesus Christ spoke these words recorded in John's gospel, it was His last time with His disciples prior to His death, crucifixion, and resurrection. The Lord Jesus Christ is being very intimate with them. Understand then, that when he speaks to them He is including them – these very disciples, specifically. These are the men He knew best and loved; they were His friends. These were His final words to them, and He wanted them to know what was in store.
Therefore, knowing that these words recorded in John's gospel are being spoken intimately between the Lord Jesus Christ and His disciples, there are several key points we can discover concerning the Comforter and His relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ's disciples. "And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth." John 14:16 The Comforter will be with these disciples forever. The Lord Jesus Christ promised that the Comforter would be with these disciples forever. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he wasn't born until over 500 years later – well after the deaths of these disciples. Muhammad was born around 570 AD and died around 632 AD. "…………………………………..but you know him for he lives with you and will be in you." John 14:17 The Comforter lives with the disciples already now and will later be 'in' them. The Holy Spirit came to the disciples and indwelt them. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because firstly, he (Muhammad) wasn't around at the time when the Lord Jesus Christ was speaking to His disciples, nor secondly could he (Muhammad) ever be in any of the disciples. The Greek word is 'en', and it means 'right inside'. The Lord Jesus Christ is saying that the Comforter will be 'right inside' of the disciples. "But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit …………" John 14:26 The Comforter is specifically described as the Holy Spirit. The Comforter is not a man. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he isn't and never was the Holy Spirit. "But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name………………………" John 14:26 The Comforter will be sent in the Lord Jesus Christ's name. The Holy Spirit represented the Lord on earth. Muslims do not believe that Muhammad was sent by Allah in the Lord Jesus Christ's name. Muhammad did not come in the Lord Jesus Christ's name, as His apostle, rather he came in his own name with his own "revelations." "But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." John 14:26 The Comforter will teach these disciples and remind them of what the Lord Jesus Christ said to them. As the early Christians grew, the Holy Spirit taught them. Muhammad is not the Comforter because he never knew the disciples and he didn't teach them, and Muhammad never reminded the disciples of what the Lord Jesus Christ said. "When the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about Me." John 15:26 The Comforter would be sent to these disciples. These disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Muhammad was never sent to these disciples. "But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth."John 16:13 The Comforter will guide these disciples into all truth. These disciples (and others) grew in the knowledge of God through the revelations from the Holy Spirit. Muhammad never guided these disciples into any truth. "He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come." John 16:13 The Comforter will speak to these disciples. These disciples grew to know the leading of the Holy Spirit, i.e. they knew His voice. Muhammad never spoke to these disciples. "He will bring glory to Me by taking from what is Mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is Mine and make it known to you." John 16:14 The Comforter will take from Jesus and make it known to the disciples. Muhammad never knew the Lord Jesus Christ and never took from Him and made it known to anyone.
The context of these passages shows clearly that Muhammad could not be the Comforter. Jesus was not speaking of another person to come at a later date. Jesus' precious final words to His disciples were meant for them. Jesus was not merely preaching a sermon to be analyzed and intellectually talked about through the centuries, rather, He was giving His disciples with Him there, His final commands, love, and encouragement.
Here's a question for you to consider B.K. In Islamic theology, Muhammad rendered the Lord Jesus Christ's message fulfilled or ended because he (Muhammad) said he brought Allah's latest message to the people. Muhammad expected that true believers in Allah would accept Islam. Therefore, if the Lord Jesus Christ was foretelling Muhammad, wouldn't the Lord Jesus Christ be prophesying that His ministry will be rendered void by the Paraclete? Read the context of the passages and decide.
Furthermore, to fulfill exactly what the Lord Jesus Christ foretold concerning the Comforter and His relationship with the disciples, the New Testament records the fulfillment of the coming of the Holy Spirit and the disciples receiving Him. The disciples received the Comforter - the Holy Spirit, on the day of Pentecost (50 days after Resurrection Sunday), which is recorded in the Acts of the Apostles 2:1-4 "When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.."
Within only ten days after the ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ, His disciples duly received the Comforter as He was promised to them by the Lord Jesus Christ. He had told them to wait in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, should come, as indeed He did while they were all together praying for His advent in the city. Muhammad is right out of this picture. "On one occasion, while He was eating with them, He gave them this command: 'Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift My Father promised, which you have heard Me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' Then they gathered around Him and asked Him, 'Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?' He said to them: 'It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by His own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.' "Acts of the Apostles 1:4-8
The Comforter was now "in" the disciples and He remained "in" them from then on and taught them — just as the Lord Jesus Christ had said He would. The Bible says much about the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, but the great and most handsome work of the Spirit is summed up in the Lord Jesus' words: "He will glorify Me". John 16.14
Although the Holy Spirit had been at work in the world before the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, and had indeed filled many of the great prophets and men of old with a longing for the coming Christ, He only finally united Himself to men, and men to God, and indeed true believers to one another after the resurrection from the dead, and ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ to heaven.
The Lord Jesus Christ spoke to His OWN disciples of the coming of the Comforter because the Holy Spirit was sent down to comfort and regenerate all true believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. This is one of the most significant and consistent elements of the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ about the Comforter. The prime purpose of the coming of the Comforter - immediately after the ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ was to draw men to Him, so that those who are influenced by the work of the Comforter will therefore become followers of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is further evidence against the theory that Muhammad was the Comforter for, whereas the Comforter would not speak of Himself, but only of the Lord Jesus Christ, Muhammad drew attention away from the Lord Jesus Christ to himself, describing himself as the ultimate apostle of Allah to be followed and obeyed. The Comforter was never to do a thing like this. The Lord Jesus Christ made it plain that the Comforter would draw the attention and faith of all men to Himself and would glorify Him before the eyes of faith of true believers as the Lord of glory in heaven.
After the Lord Jesus Christ had ascended to heaven to be glorified at the right hand of God above all the angels and departed saints, the Comforter came immediately upon His disciples to make this glory real to them and through them to spread it all over the world. For the Lord Jesus Christ is the very image of the Father's glory. In Him are all things united, whether in heaven or on earth. He is the climax of God's plan for the fullness of time. He is the beginning and the end of all God's gracious work in all ages - for all the salvation and glory that God has prepared for those who love Him are vested in the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Comforter came to give us a foretaste of this glory. He came to make the resplendent glory of the Lord Jesus Christ real to those who follow Him. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and He is given to all true believers, so that the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ in heaven may become real to men on earth
LOL , again you misunderstood what has been written or you are forcing yourself to misunderstand. Else your comprehension is so bad that you have problems understanding anything and everything.
What is the problem if the 'spirit of truth' is a person? Man is a combination of physical and spiritual , as spirit also means soul. Therefore when we mention the spirit , it is understood that it could point out to a person. Dr. Mevorach and the International Journal of Pastors are in the conclusion that the comforter is a person. A person who brings a revelation or teaching and its the teaching that would abide forever. Definition of spirit :
: the force within a person that is believed to give the body life, energy, and power
: the inner quality or nature of a person
: a person
Ha ha , it appears that you are arguing from ignorance not knowing what is spirit. What? You think when mention spirit , it is always the Holy Spirit issit? Where do you learn all this nonsense? This is simple english comprehension which you lack.
You insist that the comforter is the Holy Spirit. Ok then , I copy paste joh16:7-8 given by you
"But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment...."
It is clear , unless Jesus goes away , the comforter would not come. How can it be the Holy Spirit as it has been around before and during Jesus lifetime? Until now you have run away , twist and turn from answering. Why is it so? Your insistence that it is the Holy Spirit has contradicted your own bible in joh16:7-8. Appears that you don't have a problem contradicting your own bible. You sure you are Christian? You could be on eof those ciplak know nothing type of Christian.
No where in the bible Jesus states that the comforter would come immediately after his (Jesus)the departure (ie. Pentacost). Therefore you cannot make the claim that since Prophet Muhammad(saw) came 600 years later he is not the comforter. Its just plain lying about your bible ..... gee whizz , you dare to lie with regards to your own biblical verses ..... not very christian are you.
Aiyoyo tambi a̶u̶t̶a̶.̶8̶ truth.8 , the Quran is revelation and its teachings is what would be abiding for ever. This is consistent with what Dr Mevorach stated :
Jesus is talking about a Spirit of Truth who will bring forth new revelations, who will say the “many things” that Jesus does not say because his followers “cannot bear them now.
Unfortunately, these words in the Gospel of John have been totally missed by Christians who reject and belittle the Qur’an; we have for the most part completely ignored the unity of the Gospel and the Qur’an in terms of their common revelatory source.
LOL , lu sudah gila ka? Since when does the Quran become spirit as understood by you?
I thought I already answered why it cannot be Paul .... the liar and kaki kencing. Why are you asking the same question but not responding to my answer?
I think you should lay off alcoholic beverages before you respond. Issit that you need to get yourself drunk so as to withstand the embarrassment of your poor comprehension?
You keep on avoiding and running away from the points I raised.
- Sam Shamoun is not a scholar , as far as I know he is a school dropout. However you claim he is a scholar. Can you back up your claim?
- Why is that when muslims criticse the Bible and Christianity you keep on insisting references to scholars (BTW pastors are not scholars). However you are ok with your polemics against Islam and Quran with references to 'answering islam' and 'faith freedom'. Since when are these entities scholars?
- Why do you brush aside works by real scholars like Prof Bart Ehrman , Prof Geza Vermes , Prof Dale Tuggy (to name a few) that points out the errancy of the bible and the nature of Jesus (works which I reference to)?
Lets see how many posts do you need to answer the questions. Can you stop running and stand your ground to answer. Issit asking too much?
Truth.8 replied at 9-5-2016 07:46 PM
The world cannot accept him because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you."
Solan maut aka killer question from Truth.8: Muslims already saw Muhammad. so how this comforter / spirit of truth refer to Muhammad??
Why are you asking a question a has already been answered by Dr Mevorach? I copy paste his answer again and again and again ......
There is no better candidate than Muhammad, no one in fact that comes even close, in terms of fulfilling Jesus’s promise of the Spirit of Truth who would bring forth a new revelation from God. I do not have space in this article to explore the many Qur’anic verses directly addressed to Christians, but if we were to receive them our religion would be transformed for the better and would come into balance with Judaism and Islam.
Jesus knew it would be difficult for us to accept his guidance from another source. But he did not want our fear of the apparent otherness of the Prophet Muhammad and the Qur’an to separate us from the Way, the Truth, and the Life; that is, the Word of God. This is why he spoke to the disciples reassuringly about the Spirit of Truth, saying, “he will glorify me”; and, for the same reason, he emphasized the unity of his teaching with the revelations to come, twice repeating the promise, “he will take what is mine and declare it to you” (John 16:14-15, NRSV). Based on the promises of Jesus, Christians can encounter the Qur’an without fear, knowing that it is a revelation which glorifies Jesus and, in a spiritual sense, is from him.
The question you should ask yourself , do you see what Prophet Muhammad(saw) actually is or you just see him according to your bias? Hence the term ' you neither see him nor know him'.
The world cannot accept him because it neither sees him norknows him. But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you."
Solan maut aka killer question from Truth.8: Muslims alreadysaw Muhammad. so how this comforter / spirit of truth refer to Muhammad??
The above verses very clear indication from Jesus that spirit of truth is unseen nor know him but will be living amoung us andforever . Muhammad already been seen by peoples that time and now living now
The question you should ask yourself, have you seen thespirit of truth?
Hence the term you nither see him nor know is know as spiritthat will abide in Christ followersforever as it will guide and teaches his followers. Just like myself it wasguided by the unseen Holy Spirit that abide in me forever…….
Secondly, Jesus said John 16:7, 8
"But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guideyou into all truth. He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what hehears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to Me bytaking from what is Mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to theFather is Mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is Mine andmake it known to you."
Jesus said : Believe Me, woman, that anhour is coming when neither on this ... ye shall neither in this mountain, noryet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. ... when you shall neither on this mountain, not in Jerusalem, adore the Father.John 4:21
Meaning Jesus not concern praying direct to Jerusalem but Muhammad broke and come with idea facing kabba… Jesus did not eat certain sea foods yet Muhammad broke it. Muhammad deny Jesus crucifixion….Hence , Muhammad not comforter nor spirit of truth…
The world cannot accept him because it neither sees him norknows him. But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you."
Solan maut aka killer question from Truth.8: Muslims alreadysaw Muhammad. so how this comforter / spirit of truth refer to Muhammad??
The above verses very clear indication from Jesus that spirit of truth is unseen nor know him but will be living amoung us andforever . Muhammad already been seen by peoples that time and now living now
The question you should ask yourself, have you seen thespirit of truth?
Hence the term you nither see him nor know is know as spiritthat will abide in Christ followersforever as it will guide and teaches his followers. Just like myself it wasguided by the unseen Holy Spirit that abide in me forever…….
Secondly, Jesus said John 16:7, 8
"But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guideyou into all truth. He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what hehears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to Me bytaking from what is Mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to theFather is Mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is Mine andmake it known to you."
Jesus said : Believe Me, woman, that anhour is coming when neither on this ... ye shall neither in this mountain, noryet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. ... when you shall neither on this mountain, not in Jerusalem, adore the Father.John 4:21
Meaning Jesus not concern praying direct to Jerusalem but Muhammad broke and come with idea facing kabba… Jesus did not eat certain sea foods yet Muhammad broke it. Muhammad deny Jesus crucifixion….Hence , Muhammad not comforter nor spirit of truth…
Spirit of truth is unseen entity
As usual you and zakir kaki auta…
You still have not answered my question despite me answering your questions with ease.
You provided the verse joh16:6-7 which in context means that unless Jesus goes away , the comforter would not come. You insist the comforter is the Holy Spirit but it is already present before and during Jesus lifetime. This is a contradiction to joh16:6-7. Can you explain such?
LOL , your k̶i̶l̶l̶e̶r̶ pussycat question? Refer to my post#82. This time be sure to read and understand it.
The verse joh14:17 states clearly - Spirit of Truth not Holy Spirit. Why do you understand this being the Holy Spirit? According to the definition of 'spirit' , the said verse is then about a Person of Truthfulness. I again attach the input from Dr Mevorach which already address this issue
... However, in John 16:12-15, Jesus is talking about a Spirit of Truth who will bring forth new revelations, who will say the “many things” that Jesus does not say because his followers “cannot bear them now.”
The clear distinction is that the Spirit of Truth in John 16 is predicted to declare new revelations not merely remind Jesus’ disciples of what he already said, as in John 14. The idea that he will “declare to you the things that are to come” is especially important because it acknowledges the uncertainty about the future that Jesus’ followers faced, given the fact that he had not returned as soon as expected. Jesus asserts that this future prophet will glorify him by declaring a new revelation that will come from the same source as his message: God. This discourse is designed to open the minds of Christians to receive a future revelation not as something that competes with or diminishes the Gospel, but rather as something that glorifies Jesus. Unfortunately, these words in the Gospel of John have been totally missed by Christians who reject and belittle the Qur’an; we have for the most part completely ignored the unity of the Gospel and the Qur’an in terms of their common revelatory source. However, if we take Jesus’ words seriously, we have the opportunity to receive the Word of God in the Qur’an in accordance with Jesus’ promise that the Spirit of Truth “will take what is mine and declare it to you.” We can accept the Qur’an as a revelation, not in opposition to the Gospel, but in unity with the Gospel and the will of Jesus.
You have been checkmated. You cannot answer and run from my questions whereas your questions have been answered ease. LOL , so much for the so called k̶i̶l̶l̶e̶r̶ pussycat question.
Can you now explain which direction did Jesus prayed to and provide references from the bible. If you can't , directional prayers by Prophet Muhammad(saw) is an irrelevant issue. Only the kureng cerdik would bring it up. Since you regard Jesus being a man God - which direction you pray to? Golgota .... ha ha
LOL , Jesus was a Torah observant Jew. He did not consume the meat of swine. Christians bedal pork like nobodys business. You dare talk about observing dietary restriction? You should be embarrassed that you even brought this up.
Ha ha , can you now point out to where in the bible that confirm Jesus was crucified (meaning he died) on the cross? Until now , after so many years you still cannot do it and no answers from you.
Quit your drunkardness and sober up.
You keep on avoiding and running away from the points I raised.
- Sam Shamoun is not a scholar , as far as I know he is a school dropout. However you claim he is a scholar. Can you back up your claim?
- Why is that when muslims criticse the Bible and Christianity you keep on insisting references to scholars (BTW pastors are not scholars). However you are ok with your polemics against Islam and Quran with references to 'answering islam' and 'faith freedom'. Since when are these entities scholars?
- Why do you brush aside works by real scholars like Prof Bart Ehrman , Prof Geza Vermes , Prof Dale Tuggy (to name a few) that points out the errancy of the bible and the nature of Jesus (works which I reference to)?
Lets see how many posts do you need to answer the questions. Can you stop running and stand your ground to answer. Issit asking too much?
You provided the verse joh16:6-7 which in context means that unless Jesus goes away , the comforter would not come. You insist the comforter is the Holy Spirit but it is already present before and during Jesus lifetime. This is a contradiction to joh16:6-7. Can you explain such?
oh boy...here we go again with cowdung brain or using taqiya to misleads me? sorry not going work for me as I am high IQ
now, let see what is John 16:6-7....already explained but me going explained very slow brain like u
for whatever reason ignorant people have claimed to be the paraclete many times. before mohamed there was the 'prophet'i, who also claimed to be the paraclete.
this is actually a very simple matter of just looking at all of the verses and looking at what the early Church taught and believed...
the entire collection of verses about the paraclete only amount to five, but they are quite descriptive. we know from John 14:26, John 15:26 and John 16:7 that the paraclete comes in Christ's name and is sent by Christ. as we believe Jesus is God i concede to muslims that this could possibly indicate that the paraclete is a prophet. true prophets only come from God and are only sent from God.
but Jhn 14:16 says that the paraclete with "abide with" us "forever," something no mortal man is capable of doing.
much more importantly John 14:26 says that the Paraclete is the "Holy Spirit." the same Holy Spirit (same exact greek words) as were found in Matthew 1:18, responsible for making Mary pregnant with Jesus. so there could be no more definitive statement that the paraclete is not a prophet, but rather the Holy Spirit which proceeds from the Father and the Son.
it is also the same Holy Spirit that John the Baptist identified in Mat 3:11, wherein John promises us that Jesus will send down the Holy Spirit so that we may be baptised by it. this is important, the words "baptized in the Spirit" are important because it shows us what why this paraclete (identified as the Holy Spirit), who will abide with us forever, is so important. secondarily it is important for us to see that this event was expected by the disciples (acts 1:5), and was fulfilled for them on Pentacost.
and so the Holy Spirit remains with us today just as it was back then, while today the prophets are long dead.
the Church continues the sacred apostolic tradition of interpreting the above testimony from the Bible as signs that the Holy Spirit is the paraclete, and that Jesus promise to send the Holy Spirit was fulfilled. this has been taught since the apostles first expected the Holy Spirit as paraclete in Acts 1:5, all through the first two centuries (see Tertullian's Against Praxeas 2 from 216 AD), and into the modern day.
Truth.8 replied at 10-5-2016 10:06 PM
oh boy...here we go again with cowdung brain or using taqiya to misleads me? sorry not going work for me as I am high IQ
now, let see what is John 16:6-7....already explained but me going explained very slow brain like u
for whatever reason ignorant people have claimed to be the paraclete many times. before mohamed there was the 'prophet'i, who also claimed to be the paraclete.
this is actually a very simple matter of just looking at all of the verses and looking at what the early Church taught and believed...
the entire collection of verses about the paraclete only amount to five, but they are quite descriptive. we know from John 14:26, John 15:26 and John 16:7 that the paraclete comes in Christ's name and is sent by Christ. as we believe Jesus is God i concede to muslims that this could possibly indicate that the paraclete is a prophet. true prophets only come from God and are only sent from God.
but Jhn 14:16 says that the paraclete with "abide with" us "forever," something no mortal man is capable of doing.
much more importantly John 14:26 says that the Paraclete is the "Holy Spirit." the same Holy Spirit (same exact greek words) as were found in Matthew 1:18, responsible for making Mary pregnant with Jesus. so there could be no more definitive statement that the paraclete is not a prophet, but rather the Holy Spirit which proceeds from the Father and the Son.
it is also the same Holy Spirit that John the Baptist identified in Mat 3:11, wherein John promises us that Jesus will send down the Holy Spirit so that we may be baptised by it. this is important, the words "baptized in the Spirit" are important because it shows us what why this paraclete (identified as the Holy Spirit), who will abide with us forever, is so important. secondarily it is important for us to see that this event was expected by the disciples (acts 1:5), and was fulfilled for them on Pentacost.
and so the Holy Spirit remains with us today just as it was back then, while today the prophets are long dead.
the Church continues the sacred apostolic tradition of interpreting the above testimony from the Bible as signs that the Holy Spirit is the paraclete, and that Jesus promise to send the Holy Spirit was fulfilled. this has been taught since the apostles first expected the Holy Spirit as paraclete in Acts 1:5, all through the first two centuries (see Tertullian's Against Praxeas 2 from 216 AD), and into the modern day.
Zakir Naik caught lying Again!
LOL , TQ , You just cornered yourself. The summary of your answers from your copy paste
- concede that the paraclete can be a person (or prophet). Abiding forever - why can't it be the teaching? Can you explain
- confirm that the Holy Spirit made Mary pregnant (ie. the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary with Jesus according to bible)
- confirm that the Holy Spirit came down when John the Baptist baptised Jesus
Now lets look at joh16:7-8 as provided by you
But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment....
The condition here is that Jesus must go away before the comforter comes. In other words , the comforter must not around when Jesus was walking on this earth. However you have confirmed that the Holy Spirit was around before and during the lifetime of Jesus. Either
(a) the Holy Spirit is not the comforter
or
(b) there is a contradiction in the bible which you believe to be the word of your God.
There are no 2 ways about it. What say you? You go round and round chasing your own backside but have not answered me. Time for you to come clean , issit (a) or (b)?
My experience is that Christians will never answer this question. I really don't know why. Ta da .... we now have an example in you a̶u̶t̶a̶.̶8̶ truth.8
BTW , at the end of the copy paste , there is a mention of Tertullian. I am very sure you don't know who this person was. Its ok , I am giving you a free tutorial. This Tertullian character was lawyer from Carthage (~155 to 240 CE). He was responsible for the Latin corpus of Christian Literature. He originated and advanced a new theology for the church and historically he is considered to be the oldest source for the term Trinity or the Trinitarian Formula which was later adopted by the Ecumenical Councils.
In simple words , your Christian God aka Trinity (the Father , the Son and the Holy Ghost) was actually determined by a lawyer from Carthage. Ha ha , bagus lah tu.
You keep on avoiding and running away from the points I raised.
- Sam Shamoun is not a scholar , as far as I know he is a school dropout. However you claim he is a scholar. Can you back up your claim?
- Why is that when muslims criticse the Bible and Christianity you keep on insisting references to scholars (BTW pastors are not scholars). However you are ok with your polemics against Islam and Quran with references to 'answering islam' and 'faith freedom'. Since when are these entities scholars?
- Why do you brush aside works by real scholars like Prof Bart Ehrman , Prof Geza Vermes , Prof Dale Tuggy (to name a few) that points out the errancy of the bible and the nature of Jesus (works which I reference to)?
Lets see how many posts do you need to answer the questions. Can you stop running and stand your ground to answer. Issit asking too much?
Who is ‘The Comforter’ of John 14-16? The relevant verses, which were all spoken by the Lord Jesus, are in John’s Gospel as below:
14v15-17 “If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but ye know him; for he dwells with you, and shall be in you.”
14v25-26 “These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, Whom the Father will send in My Name, He will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
15v26 “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceeds from the Father, he shall testify of me.”
16v7-8 “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.”
16v13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.” Question 1. Who did Jesus mean by “you” when addressing the disciples regarding the Comforter? Answer: In understanding the Bible you always have to look at the context to see who spoke the words and who they refer to. If you read John c13 to 17 you will see that then Christ was alone with His disciples. His actions and the truth taught to them were very personal. He washed their feet and gave all sorts of great revelations of truth including about the soon arrival of the “Comforter” and about ‘abiding’ (i.e. resting, remaining) in Christ and closed in c17 with the personal prayer to the Father about Himself and for them and future believers in Him. In the context the “you” must refer to those disciples. However that all believers in Christ as Saviour receive the Holy Spirit is seen in Romans 8v7 and Ephesians 1v15. Do sincerely read John c13 to 17 and ask God to show you the truth. You will see that Jesus Christ was intimately talking to His disciples. Question 2.In 1 John 4:6, the terms “the spirit of truth” and “the spirit of error” are used for human beings. Does this imply that the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, is a human?
Answer: The context of this passage “of truth” means that it has its source in truth, which is God, and that is what the apostles taught. Then there is the “of error” which means, again, that it has its source in error, which this time is the world and these were the false teachers. Those who were really born of God, that is those whom the Jesus Christ described in John 3v3 as “born again”, would accept the teachings of God through the apostles and so display the “spirit of (or the attitude which is characterized by) truth”. Those that rejected God’s teaching through the apostles and had other ideas, displayed the spirit (or again the attitude which is characterized by) of error with its source from the world and the devil.
Question 3.Since Jesus was a Comforter, shouldn’t the foretold “another” Comforter also be a man? Wouldn’t Muhammad be a better fit because he also was a man, like Jesus? Answer: What made Jesus Christ a fit sacrifice for sins? Was it simply because He had a physical body and was a man, or was it because He was, as the Bible teaches, the holy Son of God? As you know it was because He was, and is, the holy Son of God. The Holy Spirit is also God, like Jesus Christ, because of His Divine nature and not because He has a body. This is seen in the following verses:
– 2 Corinthians 3v17 states “Now the Lord is the Spirit …” There is a relationship between the Spirit and the Lord, and both are said to dwell in the believer (see Romans 8:9-11).
– Hebrews 9v14 “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”
– 1 Corinthians 2v11 “For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God.” The Holy Spirit is called here the “Spirit of God” and additionally as only God can fully know the things of God then the Holy Spirit must be God.
Also, apart from physical characteristics, how much do Jesus Christ and Muhammad have in common?
– Matthew 18v21-22 says, “Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.” Did Muhammad say anything like that?
– The Lord Jesus healed the ear of a person who had come, with others, to wrongly arrest Him. “And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.” (Luke 22v51) Did Muhammad do anything like that?
– When speaking to His earthly judge, Pilate, “Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence {meaning “here” so His kingdom’s power and authority were not of this world}.” (John 18v36). Did Muhammad say anything, or behave, like that?
– After Jesus Christ was falsely accused (John 18v29-30 but no crime was stated, etc) and wrongfully treated including a terrible whipping (Matthew 27v26 etc) He was crucified (Mark 15v24-25 etc). Luke 23v34 records, “Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.” When Muhammad was being badly treated is there any record that he said anything like that?
– The Lord Jesus said, “But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.” (Matthew 5v44) Did Muhammad say that?
– Christ did many miracles that others recognized, both friends (John 3v2 “Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.”) and enemies (John 11v47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man does many miracles.”) Did Muhammad do miracles?
– John c17 was Jesus Christ’s prayer to God the Father that revealed His intimate relationship with His Father. Is there any record of Muhammad ever speaking similar prayers to Allah?
– It was said about Jesus Christ at His birth “… and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins” (Matthew 1v21). Not that these people shall save themselves by following His teachings but that He would save them by His power. Was that ever said about Muhammad?
– “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God.” (1Peter 3v18) “And ye know that he {Christ} was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.” (1John 3v5) Did Muhammad die for your sins so that he might bring you to God?
– Mark 16v6 states, “And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted {or amazed}: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.” Has Muhammad risen from the dead?
The answer to all the questions of this section is no. So when it comes to character and actions Christ is totally different from, and far better than, Muhammad. Question 4.Concerning the Trinity how can there be one God and yet three separate people? Answer: I trust that the illustrations that had been given about an egg (being one complete whole and yet having the three separate parts of a shell, yoke and white) and a triangle (being one complete triangle and yet having three distinct sides) are a help in describing the Trinity. Also if you take one part or side away then the egg and triangle are no longer an egg or a triangle. As also mentioned this truth is clearly revealed in Matthew 28v19, “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name {singular} of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” The truth of the One God and three separate Persons is displayed in a number of places as the examples below:
– Matthew 3v16-17 (see also Luke 3v21-22) “And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” So at Jesus Christ’s baptism the Father spoke and the Holy Spirit descended as a dove.
– John 15v26, “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceeds from the Father, he shall testify of me.”
– Acts 5v31-32, “Him {Jesus v30} hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.”
– 2 Corinthians 13v14 “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion {meaning fellowship} of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.” Question 5.Could the term “Holy” in John in today’s text have come from a later addition made quite deliberately? Answer: I am informed that there are hundreds of Greek manuscripts of John that pre-date Islam, and all of the earliest and most important Greek texts with this passage have “Holy” in them. Question 6. The Spirit was present on earth before Christ’s birth and people were filled with the Spirit (Elizabeth in Luke 1v41 and Zechariah in Luke 1v67), so, if the Holy Spirit were already present on Earth, even during Jesus time, then how could the Comforter be the Holy Spirit? Remember, Jesus said that He needed to depart before the Comforter could come. Answer:The receiving of the Comforter by the disciples eclipsed the previous “filling” or “moving” that others before them had experienced. The Comforter would “guide you into all truth” but also “he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me” and “he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you” (16v13-15) and 14v17 shows “he … shall be in you” and Romans 8v9 shows that this would be permanent, “…Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” This was more than what previous believers had known. Also He would be the power for witnessing to Christ as Acts 1v8 says, “But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” (See also 1 Corinthians 2v4). The disciples’ would experience greater help from the Holy Spirit as well as continuing to have Christ with them. Hebrews 13v5 “Let your conversation (meaning manner of life) be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.” The Holy Spirit would also be the power for living: “If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit” (Galatians 5v25) and “Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit” (Ephesians 6v18). Question 7. If the Comforter is the Holy Spirit, then why did Jesus have to leave in order for Him to come? After all, the Holy Spirit was already present in men’s lives during Christ’s time, reference to John 16v7-8. Answer: After the death and resurrection the Holy Spirit’s work was going to expand both as to breadth in the world and depth in believers’ lives. In John 20v22 Jesus Christ “… breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost.” A little later in Acts c1v8 the Lord Jesus said, “But ye shall receive power, after thatthe Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” (italics mine.) This was seen in Acts c2v1-36. As it was not the Holy Spirit’s work to make God’s eternal salvation available by dying for sins and rising again, so it was not the work of the Lord Jesus to bring home its truth and make it effective in the lives of those that believed in Him. Also while the Holy Spirit does “reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment” (16v8) but God has provided a way of everlasting escape from sin’s consequences. This He made available through Jesus Christ, “Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree {a description of the cross}” (1 Peter 2v24). SUMMARY
Several proofs, as follows, have been given that establish that the Comforter cannot be Muhammad:
The use of various Bible verses.
The context of the Bible verses.
The comparison of Jesus Christ with Muhammad.
Jesus Christ’s prediction of the Comforter coming to the disciples being fulfilled at Pentecost.
CONCLUSION Therefore the only Person Who could fulfill every verse mentioned above, about the Comforter, is the Holy Spirit. He came during Pentecost (Acts c2), and continues to reveal Christ and that, “In whom (Christ) we have … the forgiveness of sins” (Ephesians 1v7) and help Christians in their living.
Truth.8 replied at 11-5-2016 10:29 AM Who is ‘The Comforter’ of John 14-16? The relevant verses, which were all spoken by the Lord Jesus, are in John’s Gospel as below:
14v15-17 “If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but ye know him; for he dwells with you, and shall be in you.”
14v25-26 “These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, Whom the Father will send in My Name, He will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
15v26 “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceeds from the Father, he shall testify of me.”
16v7-8 “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.”
16v13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.” Question 1. Who did Jesus mean by “you” when addressing the disciples regarding the Comforter? Answer: In understanding the Bible you always have to look at the context to see who spoke the words and who they refer to. If you read John c13 to 17 you will see that then Christ was alone with His disciples. His actions and the truth taught to them were very personal. He washed their feet and gave all sorts of great revelations of truth including about the soon arrival of the “Comforter” and about ‘abiding’ (i.e. resting, remaining) in Christ and closed in c17 with the personal prayer to the Father about Himself and for them and future believers in Him. In the context the “you” must refer to those disciples. However that all believers in Christ as Saviour receive the Holy Spirit is seen in Romans 8v7 and Ephesians 1v15. Do sincerely read John c13 to 17 and ask God to show you the truth. You will see that Jesus Christ was intimately talking to His disciples. Question 2.In 1 John 4:6, the terms “the spirit of truth” and “the spirit of error” are used for human beings. Does this imply that the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, is a human?
Answer: The context of this passage “of truth” means that it has its source in truth, which is God, and that is what the apostles taught. Then there is the “of error” which means, again, that it has its source in error, which this time is the world and these were the false teachers. Those who were really born of God, that is those whom the Jesus Christ described in John 3v3 as “born again”, would accept the teachings of God through the apostles and so display the “spirit of (or the attitude which is characterized by) truth”. Those that rejected God’s teaching through the apostles and had other ideas, displayed the spirit (or again the attitude which is characterized by) of error with its source from the world and the devil.
Question 3.Since Jesus was a Comforter, shouldn’t the foretold “another” Comforter also be a man? Wouldn’t Muhammad be a better fit because he also was a man, like Jesus? Answer: What made Jesus Christ a fit sacrifice for sins? Was it simply because He had a physical body and was a man, or was it because He was, as the Bible teaches, the holy Son of God? As you know it was because He was, and is, the holy Son of God. The Holy Spirit is also God, like Jesus Christ, because of His Divine nature and not because He has a body. This is seen in the following verses:
– 2 Corinthians 3v17 states “Now the Lord is the Spirit …” There is a relationship between the Spirit and the Lord, and both are said to dwell in the believer (see Romans 8:9-11).
– Hebrews 9v14 “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”
– 1 Corinthians 2v11 “For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God.” The Holy Spirit is called here the “Spirit of God” and additionally as only God can fully know the things of God then the Holy Spirit must be God.
Also, apart from physical characteristics, how much do Jesus Christ and Muhammad have in common?
– Matthew 18v21-22 says, “Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.” Did Muhammad say anything like that?
– The Lord Jesus healed the ear of a person who had come, with others, to wrongly arrest Him. “And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.” (Luke 22v51) Did Muhammad do anything like that?
– When speaking to His earthly judge, Pilate, “Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence {meaning “here” so His kingdom’s power and authority were not of this world}.” (John 18v36). Did Muhammad say anything, or behave, like that?
– After Jesus Christ was falsely accused (John 18v29-30 but no crime was stated, etc) and wrongfully treated including a terrible whipping (Matthew 27v26 etc) He was crucified (Mark 15v24-25 etc). Luke 23v34 records, “Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.” When Muhammad was being badly treated is there any record that he said anything like that?
– The Lord Jesus said, “But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.” (Matthew 5v44) Did Muhammad say that?
– Christ did many miracles that others recognized, both friends (John 3v2 “Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.”) and enemies (John 11v47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man does many miracles.”) Did Muhammad do miracles?
– John c17 was Jesus Christ’s prayer to God the Father that revealed His intimate relationship with His Father. Is there any record of Muhammad ever speaking similar prayers to Allah?
– It was said about Jesus Christ at His birth “… and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins” (Matthew 1v21). Not that these people shall save themselves by following His teachings but that He would save them by His power. Was that ever said about Muhammad?
– “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God.” (1Peter 3v18) “And ye know that he {Christ} was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.” (1John 3v5) Did Muhammad die for your sins so that he might bring you to God?
– Mark 16v6 states, “And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted {or amazed}: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.” Has Muhammad risen from the dead?
The answer to all the questions of this section is no. So when it comes to character and actions Christ is totally different from, and far better than, Muhammad. Question 4.Concerning the Trinity how can there be one God and yet three separate people? Answer: I trust that the illustrations that had been given about an egg (being one complete whole and yet having the three separate parts of a shell, yoke and white) and a triangle (being one complete triangle and yet having three distinct sides) are a help in describing the Trinity. Also if you take one part or side away then the egg and triangle are no longer an egg or a triangle. As also mentioned this truth is clearly revealed in Matthew 28v19, “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name {singular} of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” The truth of the One God and three separate Persons is displayed in a number of places as the examples below:
– Matthew 3v16-17 (see also Luke 3v21-22) “And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” So at Jesus Christ’s baptism the Father spoke and the Holy Spirit descended as a dove.
– John 15v26, “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceeds from the Father, he shall testify of me.”
– Acts 5v31-32, “Him {Jesus v30} hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.”
– 2 Corinthians 13v14 “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion {meaning fellowship} of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.” Question 5.Could the term “Holy” in John in today’s text have come from a later addition made quite deliberately? Answer: I am informed that there are hundreds of Greek manuscripts of John that pre-date Islam, and all of the earliest and most important Greek texts with this passage have “Holy” in them. Question 6. The Spirit was present on earth before Christ’s birth and people were filled with the Spirit (Elizabeth in Luke 1v41 and Zechariah in Luke 1v67), so, if the Holy Spirit were already present on Earth, even during Jesus time, then how could the Comforter be the Holy Spirit? Remember, Jesus said that He needed to depart before the Comforter could come. Answer:The receiving of the Comforter by the disciples eclipsed the previous “filling” or “moving” that others before them had experienced. The Comforter would “guide you into all truth” but also “he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me” and “he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you” (16v13-15) and 14v17 shows “he … shall be in you” and Romans 8v9 shows that this would be permanent, “…Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” This was more than what previous believers had known. Also He would be the power for witnessing to Christ as Acts 1v8 says, “But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” (See also 1 Corinthians 2v4). The disciples’ would experience greater help from the Holy Spirit as well as continuing to have Christ with them. Hebrews 13v5 “Let your conversation (meaning manner of life) be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.” The Holy Spirit would also be the power for living: “If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit” (Galatians 5v25) and “Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit” (Ephesians 6v18). Question 7. If the Comforter is the Holy Spirit, then why did Jesus have to leave in order for Him to come? After all, the Holy Spirit was already present in men’s lives during Christ’s time, reference to John 16v7-8. Answer: After the death and resurrection the Holy Spirit’s work was going to expand both as to breadth in the world and depth in believers’ lives. In John 20v22 Jesus Christ “… breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost.” A little later in Acts c1v8 the Lord Jesus said, “But ye shall receive power, after thatthe Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” (italics mine.) This was seen in Acts c2v1-36. As it was not the Holy Spirit’s work to make God’s eternal salvation available by dying for sins and rising again, so it was not the work of the Lord Jesus to bring home its truth and make it effective in the lives of those that believed in Him. Also while the Holy Spirit does “reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment” (16v8) but God has provided a way of everlasting escape from sin’s consequences. This He made available through Jesus Christ, “Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree {a description of the cross}” (1 Peter 2v24). SUMMARY
Several proofs, as follows, have been given that establish that the Comforter cannot be Muhammad:
The use of various Bible verses.
The context of the Bible verses.
The comparison of Jesus Christ with Muhammad.
Jesus Christ’s prediction of the Comforter coming to the disciples being fulfilled at Pentecost.
CONCLUSION Therefore the only Person Who could fulfill every verse mentioned above, about the Comforter, is the Holy Spirit. He came during Pentecost (Acts c2), and continues to reveal Christ and that, “In whom (Christ) we have … the forgiveness of sins” (Ephesians 1v7) and help Christians in their living.
Enjoyyyyy watching
LOL , what a long copy paste in which you don't even understand. There is only a relevant passage which I reproduce here and hilite the pertinent points:
Question 6. The Spirit was present on earth before Christ’s birth and people were filled with the Spirit (Elizabeth in Luke 1v41 and Zechariah in Luke 1v67), so, if the Holy Spirit were already present on Earth, even during Jesus time, then how could the Comforter be the Holy Spirit? Remember, Jesus said that He needed to depart before the Comforter could come.
Answer: The receiving of the Comforter by the disciples eclipsed the previous “filling” or “moving” that others before them had experienced. The Comforter would “guide you into all truth” but also “he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me” and “he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you” (16v13-15) and 14v17 shows “he … shall be in you” and Romans 8v9 shows that this would be permanent, “…Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” This was more than what previous believers had known. Also He would be the power for witnessing to Christ as Acts 1v8 says, “But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” (See also 1 Corinthians 2v4). The disciples’ would experience greater help from the Holy Spirit as well as continuing to have Christ with them. Hebrews 13v5 “Let your conversation (meaning manner of life) be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.” The Holy Spirit would also be the power for living: “If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit” (Galatians 5v25) and “Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit” (Ephesians 6v18).
The question is :
if the Holy Spirit were already present on Earth, even during Jesus time, then how could the Comforter be the Holy Spirit? Remember, Jesus said that He needed to depart before the Comforter could come.
The answers provided:
(1) receiving of the Comforter by the disciples eclipsed the previous “filling” or “moving”
(2) Comforter would “guide you into all truth” but also “he will shew you things to come.
Can you now tell me whether your copy paste answer the question? Its a big NO. I dunno about you , the answer given doesn't even come close to the point of the question. I told you , Christians just refuse to answer this question. Why? Nobody knows.
There can only be 2 answers
(1) the Holy Spirit is not the comforter
or
(2) contradiction of the bible (the words of your God)
What is it tambi a̶u̶t̶a̶.̶8̶ truth.8 , (1) or (2) ?
BTW , when you quoted eph1:7 , did you read thru the whole of eph1? eph1:17 (NIV)
I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.
Ha ha , the bible confirm that Lord Jesus has a God , it being the Father. You regard Jesus being God and now Jesus has God. Is the Father the Boss God?
You keep on avoiding and running away from the points I raised.
- Sam Shamoun is not a scholar , as far as I know he is a school dropout. However you claim he is a scholar. Can you back up your claim?
- Why is that when muslims criticse the Bible and Christianity you keep on insisting references to scholars (BTW pastors are not scholars). However you are ok with your polemics against Islam and Quran with references to 'answering islam' and 'faith freedom'. Since when are these entities scholars?
- Why do you brush aside works by real scholars like Prof Bart Ehrman , Prof Geza Vermes , Prof Dale Tuggy (to name a few) that points out the errancy of the bible and the nature of Jesus (works which I reference to)?
Lets see how many posts do you need to answer the questions. Can you stop running and stand your ground to answer. Issit asking too much?
John 14:16; 15:26; 16:7Muslims claim that the verses speaking of the coming “Comforter” (“Paracletos” in the original Greek) are actually references to the coming of Muhammad. The reason for this is that in the Qur’an Jesus is made to say that after Himself an apostle would be sent, “Whose name shall be Ahmad” (Qur’an 61:6). The following is Yusuf Ali’s commentary on this verse:
“Ahmad,” or “Muhammad,” the Praised One, is almost a translation of the Greek word Periclytos. In the present Gospel of John, xiv. 16, xv. 26, and xvi. 7, the word “Comforter” in the English version is for the Greek word “Paracletos,” which means “Advocate,” “one called to the help of another, a kind friend” rather than “Comforter.” Our doctors contend that Paracletos is a corrupt reading for Periclytos, and that in their [sic] original saying of Jesus there was a prophecy of our holy Prophet Ahmad byname.26
Thus Muslims believe that all of our Bibles have been corrupted and that the apostle John really used the word “Periclytos” in these verses, not the word “Paracletos.”
In examining the Muslim claim that the text has been corrupted the textual critic would quite rightly look to the actual textual evidence. There are over 24,000 manuscript copies of portions of the New Testament which date from before A.D. 350. Not once in any of the manuscripts which contain these passages do we find the word “Periclytos” used. The word that we find used every time is “Paracletos.” Thus, there is absolutely no textual evidencewhich would back up their contention that the text was corrupted.
The Muslim position is even more lamentable when we carefully read these verses to see what Jesus was saying. There is a great deal which could be said about each verse; however, we will limit our review to the obvious discrepancies between the Islamic position and what is actually being said: “And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Comforter,27 that He may abide with you forever” (John 14:16). First of all, Jesus said that the Father “will give you another Comforter.” Who was Jesus addressing in these verses? The Arabs, or more specifically, the Ishmaelites? Of course not. He is speaking to Jewish believers. Hence the “Comforter” would be sent initially to them. This cannot be referring to Muhammad.
Second, this verse states that the “Paracletos,” the “Comforter,” would “abide with you forever.” How can this apply to Muhammad? The Muslim prophet has been dead and buried for over 1,300 years.
“Even the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you” (John 14:17). Here “the Spirit of Truth” is used as another title or synonym for the “Paraclete.” We see from this verse that the “Paraclete” would be “in you.” Again, it is impossible to reconcile this statement with the Islamic position.
John 14:26 completely devastates the Muslim hypothesis that Muhammad was actually the one being prophesied in the verses dealing with the coming “Comforter” (or “Paraclete”): “But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.” Jesus said that the “Comforter” is “the Holy Spirit.” This is the reason why all of the Muslim apologists stay away from this verse, only quoting the verses they like. Jesus commanded His disciples — in Acts 1:4-5 — not to “depart from Jerusalem,” for they would “be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
Do these verses really apply to Muhammad appearing 600 years later in Mecca? Only a person already biased and completely credulous could believe this. The fulfillment of Jesus’ words occurred 10 days later on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4), not six centuries later, hundreds of miles from Jerusalem.
Prof. ‘Abdu ‘L-Ahad Dauud, in Muhammad in the Bible, states that this alleged prophecy “is one of the strongest proofs thatMuhammad was truly a Prophet and that the Qur’an is really a divine revelation”28 (emphasis added). If these verses constitute one of their “strongest proofs,” then I will not belabor the reader with “lesser proofs.” I believe that Blaise Pascal succinctly summarized the situation: “Any man can do what [Muhammad] has done; for he performed no miracles, he was not foretold. No man can do what Christ has done.”29
What is Truth.8 conclusion: Muhammad not comforter nor spirit of truth...is all cook up by muslims to sell their relgion to conviences peoples who low understanding in Bible. Just like the story about Niel Armstrong who heard azan in moon ..eventually Niel Armstorng deny all those nonsense after many years.....to peoples out there...do not listen every words of Muslims ...do you own research and study before accepting islam...as for me : muhamma not prophet ...simple as that... Using Taqiya is another tactic muslims will protect their religion....taqiya is lies to be use in certain way .....
so, be wise and smart ... as for me : Jesus is way of life...in Jesus you find LOVE and PEACE - AMEN
Truth.8 replied at 11-5-2016 12:15 PM John 14:16; 15:26; 16:7Muslims claim that the verses speaking of the coming “Comforter” (“Paracletos” in the original Greek) are actually references to the coming of Muhammad. The reason for this is that in the Qur’an Jesus is made to say that after Himself an apostle would be sent, “Whose name shall be Ahmad” (Qur’an 61:6). The following is Yusuf Ali’s commentary on this verse:
“Ahmad,” or “Muhammad,” the Praised One, is almost a translation of the Greek word Periclytos. In the present Gospel of John, xiv. 16, xv. 26, and xvi. 7, the word “Comforter” in the English version is for the Greek word “Paracletos,” which means “Advocate,” “one called to the help of another, a kind friend” rather than “Comforter.” Our doctors contend that Paracletos is a corrupt reading for Periclytos, and that in their [sic] original saying of Jesus there was a prophecy of our holy Prophet Ahmad byname.26
Thus Muslims believe that all of our Bibles have been corrupted and that the apostle John really used the word “Periclytos” in these verses, not the word “Paracletos.”
In examining the Muslim claim that the text has been corrupted the textual critic would quite rightly look to the actual textual evidence. There are over 24,000 manuscript copies of portions of the New Testament which date from before A.D. 350. Not once in any of the manuscripts which contain these passages do we find the word “Periclytos” used. The word that we find used every time is “Paracletos.” Thus, there is absolutely no textual evidencewhich would back up their contention that the text was corrupted.
The Muslim position is even more lamentable when we carefully read these verses to see what Jesus was saying. There is a great deal which could be said about each verse; however, we will limit our review to the obvious discrepancies between the Islamic position and what is actually being said: “And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Comforter,27 that He may abide with you forever” (John 14:16). First of all, Jesus said that the Father “will give you another Comforter.” Who was Jesus addressing in these verses? The Arabs, or more specifically, the Ishmaelites? Of course not. He is speaking to Jewish believers. Hence the “Comforter” would be sent initially to them. This cannot be referring to Muhammad.
Second, this verse states that the “Paracletos,” the “Comforter,” would “abide with you forever.” How can this apply to Muhammad? The Muslim prophet has been dead and buried for over 1,300 years.
“Even the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you” (John 14:17). Here “the Spirit of Truth” is used as another title or synonym for the “Paraclete.” We see from this verse that the “Paraclete” would be “in you.” Again, it is impossible to reconcile this statement with the Islamic position.
John 14:26 completely devastates the Muslim hypothesis that Muhammad was actually the one being prophesied in the verses dealing with the coming “Comforter” (or “Paraclete”): “But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.” Jesus said that the “Comforter” is “the Holy Spirit.” This is the reason why all of the Muslim apologists stay away from this verse, only quoting the verses they like. Jesus commanded His disciples — in Acts 1:4-5 — not to “depart from Jerusalem,” for they would “be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
Do these verses really apply to Muhammad appearing 600 years later in Mecca? Only a person already biased and completely credulous could believe this. The fulfillment of Jesus’ words occurred 10 days later on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4), not six centuries later, hundreds of miles from Jerusalem.
Prof. ‘Abdu ‘L-Ahad Dauud, in Muhammad in the Bible, states that this alleged prophecy “is one of the strongest proofs thatMuhammad was truly a Prophet and that the Qur’an is really a divine revelation”28 (emphasis added). If these verses constitute one of their “strongest proofs,” then I will not belabor the reader with “lesser proofs.” I believe that Blaise Pascal succinctly summarized the situation: “Any man can do what [Muhammad] has done; for he performed no miracles, he was not foretold. No man can do what Christ has done.”29
What is Truth.8 conclusion: Muhammad not comforter nor spirit of truth...is all cook up by muslims to sell their relgion to conviences peoples who low understanding in Bible. Just like the story about Niel Armstrong who heard azan in moon ..eventually Niel Armstorng deny all those nonsense after many years.....to peoples out there...do not listen every words of Muslims ...do you own research and study before accepting islam...as for me : muhamma not prophet ...simple as that... Using Taqiya is another tactic muslims will protect their religion....taqiya is lies to be use in certain way .....
so, be wise and smart ... as for me : Jesus is way of life...in Jesus you find LOVE and PEACE - AMEN
I am proven right once again. Told you that Christians simply refuse to answer the question :
if the Holy Spirit were already present on Earth, even during Jesus time, then how could the Comforter be the Holy Spirit? Remember, Jesus said that He needed to depart before the Comforter could come
They are scared that the answer would shatter their faith. This is exemplified by tambi a̶u̶t̶a̶.̶8̶ truth.8
Now you are running off to copy paste of why Prophet Muhammad(saw) cannot be the comforter but just rehashing already refuted arguments.
You need to go back to the bible in joh16:12-14 (NIV)
12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.
13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.
Dr Mevorach addresses this verse quite well :
However, in John 16:12-15, Jesus is talking about a Spirit of Truth who will bring forth new revelations, who will say the “many things” that Jesus does not say because his followers “cannot bear them now.”
The clear distinction is that the Spirit of Truth in John 16 is predicted to declare new revelations not merely remind Jesus’ disciples of what he already said, as in John 14. The idea that he will “declare to you the things that are to come” is especially important because it acknowledges the uncertainty about the future that Jesus’ followers faced, given the fact that he had not returned as soon as expected. Jesus asserts that this future prophet will glorify him by declaring a new revelation that will come from the same source as his message: God.
The Holy Spirit does not bring any new revelation. Heck , it does not even bring any revelation.
There is a test for this , 1joh4:2 (NIV)
This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God
Prophet Muhammad(saw) was given the revelation , it being the Quran that attest Prophet Eesa(as) (Jesus to you) is the Christ or Messiah by addressing him being 'Al-Masih' (Quran4:171).
However Christians having the Holy Spirit in them address such being Messiah and God.
Tambah pulak satu but the bible in 1joh4:2 does not mention 'Christ and God' ... only 'Christ'.
Prophet Muhammad(saw) pass the biblical test whereas the Holy Spirit failed.
LOL , Neil Armstrong heard azan on the moon. Its a bit early in the day to be drunk , yes?
You keep on avoiding and running away from the points I raised.
- Sam Shamoun is not a scholar , as far as I know he is a school dropout. However you claim he is a scholar. Can you back up your claim?
- Why is that when muslims criticse the Bible and Christianity you keep on insisting references to scholars (BTW pastors are not scholars). However you are ok with your polemics against Islam and Quran with references to 'answering islam' and 'faith freedom'. Since when are these entities scholars?
- Why do you brush aside works by real scholars like Prof Bart Ehrman , Prof Geza Vermes , Prof Dale Tuggy (to name a few) that points out the errancy of the bible and the nature of Jesus (works which I reference to)?
Lets see how many posts do you need to answer the questions. Can you stop running and stand your ground to answer. Issit asking too much?
I have provide enough proof that the spirit of truth is Holy spirit not muhammad. Oh yes, muslims will lie to protect their faith because lying allowed:
Was Muhammad a Spirit ?
Do human spirit referred to in capital "s" ?
Muhammad encouraged lie telling, is that the Spirit of Truth ? We read of Muhammad telling lies to deceive, is that the Spirit of Truth?
Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage.
Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.
Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permitted in order to deceive an "enemy."
The Spirit of Truth is the Holy Spirit that descended on the disciples on the Day of Pentecost. He is still descending on Christ believers till today.
I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put my words in the mouth of the prophet, who shall speak to them everything that I command.(Deut 18:18-19, NRSV)
This passage is self explanatory. " from among their own people" This was an address to the Israelites by Moses when he was leading them to Cannan. Moses faced the Israelites and prophesied to them that God would raise a prophet like him among their own people. It was the Israelites Moses was
prophesying to and not Arabians. Muhammad's race was not among the people to whom Moses prophesied.
Truth.8 replied at 13-5-2016 12:11 AM
I have provide enough proof that the spirit of truth is Holy spirit not muhammad. Oh yes, muslims will lie to protect their faith because lying allowed:
Was Muhammad a Spirit ?
Do human spirit referred to in capital "s" ?
Muhammad encouraged lie telling, is that the Spirit of Truth ? We read of Muhammad telling lies to deceive, is that the Spirit of Truth?
Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage.
Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.
Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permitted in order to deceive an "enemy."
The Spirit of Truth is the Holy Spirit that descended on the disciples on the Day of Pentecost. He is still descending on Christ believers till today.
I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put my words in the mouth of the prophet, who shall speak to them everything that I command.(Deut 18:18-19, NRSV)
This passage is self explanatory. " from among their own people" This was an address to the Israelites by Moses when he was leading them to Cannan. Moses faced the Israelites and prophesied to them that God would raise a prophet like him among their own people. It was the Israelites Moses was
prophesying to and not Arabians. Muhammad's race was not among the people to whom Moses prophesied.
LOL such is so poor from you. Is there a problem with you and Christians in general that you refuse to answer the following question :
if the Holy Spirit were already present on Earth, even during Jesus time, then how could the Comforter be the Holy Spirit? Remember, Jesus said that He needed to depart before the Comforter could come
If you cannot even answer the question , you are not qualified to even argue that the comforter is the Holy Spirit. You are just making a fool of yourself.
I thought I have provided the definition of spirit (capital S or otherwise)? Why are you repeating your asinine argument?
Ha ha , you cannot answer the most pertinent question then off you go trying to character damage Prophet Muhammad(saw). However you arguments which you copied from Answering Islam is very naive and to be honest silly. Of course lah tambi , in any stratefy of war , deceit is one of the most powerful weapon. A military strategist would include misinformation and deceit in his planning so that victory would be attained. All warfare is based on Deception by
When Sun Tzu elaborates on deception, he begins:
“Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable;
When using our forces, we must seem inactive;
When we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away;
When far away, we must make him believe we are near.”
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure this out.
You then quote
I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put my words in the mouth of the prophet, who shall speak to them everything that I command.(Deut 18:18-19, NRSV)
If it is referring specifically to the Israelites it would be '..among you people..'. However it is '..among their own people..'. Thus there is never a reference that prophets must be from the Israelite line. However most if not all prophets came from the Abraham line. Abraham was not even an Israelite.
BTW , if you are so much into the Israelite lineage , do you know how your man God in Jesus address people like , a gentile? mark7:24-27 (NIV)
24 Jesus left that place and went to the vicinity of Tyre.[a] He entered a house and did not want anyone to know it; yet he could not keep his presence secret.
25 In fact, as soon as she heard about him, a woman whose little daughter was possessed by an impure spirit came and fell at his feet.
26 The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
27 “First let the children eat all they want,” he told her, “for it is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”
Yep , you are right. Gentiles like you are just dogs in the eyes of your man god in Jesus.
Maybe you should include 'woof woof' in your prayers to Jesus.
You keep on avoiding and running away from the points I raised.
- Sam Shamoun is not a scholar , as far as I know he is a school dropout. However you claim he is a scholar. Can you back up your claim?
- Why is that when muslims criticse the Bible and Christianity you keep on insisting references to scholars (BTW pastors are not scholars). However you are ok with your polemics against Islam and Quran with references to 'answering islam' and 'faith freedom'. Since when are these entities scholars?
- Why do you brush aside works by real scholars like Prof Bart Ehrman , Prof Geza Vermes , Prof Dale Tuggy (to name a few) that points out the errancy of the bible and the nature of Jesus (works which I reference to)?
Lets see how many posts do you need to answer the questions. Can you stop running and stand your ground to answer. Issit asking too much?
stop running here and there. Spriti of truth spoke only truth but muhammad urged his followers to lie.
how you explaine????
and the spirit is unseen....so how could muhammad can be seen
spirit of truth is from decendant Israel but how u expalin Ismail gerenation??
and this also:::
“Ahmad,” or “Muhammad,” the Praised One, is almost a translation of the Greek word Periclytos. In the present Gospel of John, xiv. 16, xv. 26, and xvi. 7, the word “Comforter” in the English version is for the Greek word “Paracletos,” which means “Advocate,” “one called to the help of another, a kind friend” rather than “Comforter.” Our doctors contend that Paracletos is a corrupt reading for Periclytos, and that in their [sic] original saying of Jesus there was a prophecy of our holy Prophet Ahmad byname.26
boharie odin10 months ago
All i can say is Zakir Naik is a preacher that will lead the muslim ummah to the hell fire! SUBHANALLAH!!! it is very clear in the qur'an that Allah says ''Innallaha 'ala kulli shayin qadeer'' (Allah is able to do all things). He is nothing but an ''IGNORANT''
Zakir Naik claims Allah can't do a 1000 things???!!! Muslims also condem zakir but in Malaysia he was awarded Maal Hijrah ,hmmmmm
boharie odin10 months ago
All i can say is Zakir Naik is a preacher that will lead the muslim ummah to the hell fire! SUBHANALLAH!!! it is very clear in the qur'an that Allah says ''Innallaha 'ala kulli shayin qadeer'' (Allah is able to do all things). He is nothing but an ''IGNORANT''
Zakir Naik claims Allah can't do a 1000 things???!!! Muslims also condem zakir but in Malaysia he was awarded Tokoh Maal Hijrah ....hmmmmm
how you explaine????
and the spirit is unseen....so how could muhammad can be seen
spirit of truth is from decendant Israel but how u expalin Ismail gerenation??
and this also:::
“Ahmad,” or “Muhammad,” the Praised One, is almost a translation of the Greek word Periclytos. In the present Gospel of John, xiv. 16, xv. 26, and xvi. 7, the word “Comforter” in the English version is for the Greek word “Paracletos,” which means “Advocate,” “one called to the help of another, a kind friend” rather than “Comforter.” Our doctors contend that Paracletos is a corrupt reading for Periclytos, and that in their [sic] original saying of Jesus there was a prophecy of our holy Prophet Ahmad byname.26
boharie odin10 months ago
All i can say is Zakir Naik is a preacher that will lead the muslim ummah to the hell fire! SUBHANALLAH!!! it is very clear in the qur'an that Allah says ''Innallaha 'ala kulli shayin qadeer'' (Allah is able to do all things). He is nothing but an ''IGNORANT''
Zakir Naik claims Allah can't do a 1000 things???!!! Muslims also condem zakir but in Malaysia he was awarded Maal Hijrah ,hmmmmm
LOL , lets take one thing at a time.
You concede that the comforter cannot be the Holy Spirit because of your inability and refusal to answer
if the Holy Spirit were already present on Earth, even during Jesus time, then how could the Comforter be the Holy Spirit? Remember, Jesus said that He needed to depart before the Comforter could come
Now you contend that your version of the Spirit of Truth must always tell the truth regardless and you provided a Hadith that stated Prophet Muhammad(saw) stated that 'War is Deceit'. Therefore Prophet Muhammad(saw) cannot be your version of the Spirit of Truth. Lets scrutinise your argument. You mean to tell me that your version of the Spirit of Truth when planning for battle would go to his enemy and tell them when , where and how they would attack or defend? Then your version of the Spirit of Truth is not the Spirit of Truth but an idiot.
I really dunno why you come up with such silly argument.
LOL , again you are arguing how can it be as siprits are unseen. Dey tambi , did you refer to my given definition of spirit? Do you even read? Where does it say Spirit of Truth must be from lineage of Israel? Show me where in your bible.
Translation is not crucial here as it is the context of issues we are looking at. Corruption can be Paracletos or Periclytos or the other way around.
Ha ha , I am not bothered of what this Boharie Odin has got to say. Dr Naik was providing a philosophical argument which appeal to logic. For example , can God create something he cannot destroy. This is an illogical statement because anything that can be created can be destroyed. I just don't know why you seem to understand things literally. Let me ask you , is there a married bachelor around? Yes or No?
Ha ha , You keep on exposing your less than average intelligence.
You keep on avoiding and running away from the points I raised.
- Sam Shamoun is not a scholar , as far as I know he is a school dropout. However you claim he is a scholar. Can you back up your claim?
- Why is that when muslims criticse the Bible and Christianity you keep on insisting references to scholars (BTW pastors are not scholars). However you are ok with your polemics against Islam and Quran with references to 'answering islam' and 'faith freedom'. Since when are these entities scholars?
- Why do you brush aside works by real scholars like Prof Bart Ehrman , Prof Geza Vermes , Prof Dale Tuggy (to name a few) that points out the errancy of the bible and the nature of Jesus (works which I reference to)?
Lets see how many posts do you need to answer the questions. Can you stop running and stand your ground to answer. Issit asking too much?
You concede that the comforter cannot be the Holy Spirit b ...
Islam orChristianity?
Jesus or Muhammad?Christian Gospel or Muslim Qur’an?The religion ofIslam claims that Muhammad (Mohammed) was as great a prophet as JesusChrist, that the Qur’an (Koran or Quran) succeeded the New Testament, and that Muslim (Moslem) teachings should be followed instead ofChristianity. In this study we compare the evidence for Islam tothe evidence for Jesus as revealed in the Bible: fulfilledprophecy, miracles, and the resurrection. Was Jesus the DivineSon of God crucified to save us from our sins, or is there justone individual Being in God (Allah)?
Introduction:
The purpose of this study is to examine the beliefs of Islamand the teaching of Muhammad in the Qur’an, comparing these to theBible and the gospel of Jesus Christ. A Brief Summary of Islam"Islam" is the proper term for the religion revealedby Muhammad (sometimes spelled Mohammed) in Arabia in the early 600's. "Islam" means"submission" (to the will of God). Adherents are called Muslims ("one who submits")(often one sees the word as "Moslem"). Arabians aredescendants of Ishmael, so Islam claims to be a renewal of theancient religion of Abraham traced through Ishmael.
Muhammad was born in Mecca, Arabia, about 570 AD. Orphaned atan early age, he was raised by his grandfather and then his uncle.His family was aristocratic and influential. He grew up in timesof religious and political confusion and uncertainty. At age 25he married a wealthy 40-year-old widow named Khadijah.
At age 40 he began claiming to receive dreams and revelations,but was unsure of their source. He quoted these revelations toothers who wrote them down. His wife convinced him these weremessages from God, as Muslims today believe. But non-Muslimsbelieve he developed such a deep religious fervor, out of concernfor the needs of the people, that he began having dreams aboutreligion and attributed them to God.
Rejected at first by the people of Mecca, he fled to Medinawhere he became a religious and political leader. By a series ofviolent battles he obtained income and converted people to Islam.Eventually he returned to Mecca and captured it by force.
When he died at age 63-65, a power struggle developedregarding who should succeed him. Several sects resulted, themajor two being Sunni Muslims and Shiite Muslims. We will mainlyconsider Sunni Muslims (by far the larger group), though many ofthe same points would apply to other forms of Islam.Nevertheless, we should remember that there are wide variationsamong Muslims, just as there are among those claiming to beChristians. Relationship of Islam to Judaism and TheGospel of ChristIslam claims to believe in the same God as Jews and Christians,the God of Abraham, revealed in the Old Testament. Muslimsgenerally claim that “Allah” is just their name for theGod of the Bible. Significant differences exist, however, regarding how thereligions view Jesus Christ. All three religions began from the work of major individual prophets.Jews' beliefs were revealed by Moses, Christians' by Jesus, and Muslims' by Muhammad. Islam recognizes both Moses and Jesus asprophets (along with other Bible prophets), but it claims that Muhammad is the last of the prophets and his revelationsupersedes those ofMoses and Jesus. All are based on written revelations claimed to beinfallibly inspired by God. The Jews accept only the OldTestament, Christians also accept the New Testament, and Muslimsaccept the Qur’an (they also have great respect for Muslim traditions). Just as Christians believe the Old Testament wasinspired but was replaced by the New Testament, so Muslimsbelieve the Old and New Testaments were inspired but were bothreplaced by the Qur’an. (Note that Qur’an has also commonly been spelledKoran or Quran.)
For these reasons many similarities exist among Judaism, thegospel, and Islam. Yet we will see that essential differencesalso exist. Note - In this study we have mainly relied on the followingsources about Islam:The Qur’an (references are cited according to the printing I own). Encyclopedia Britannica (abbreviated EB), articles on"Islam," "Muhammad," and "Qur’an." World's Religions (abbr. WR), edited by Norman Anderson. Christian's Response to Islam, (abbr. CRI), by William Miller.
Also other miscellaneous sources as noted.
(Note: This study refers several times to a lesson about"Evidences," which summarizes the evidence for God,Jesus, and the Bible. It can be accessed from our website at www.gospelway.com/instruct/.) Part I: Basic DoctrinesSince Islam claims to accept the Old and New Testaments, ifits doctrines are true then they ought to harmonize with theBible. So let us examine some basic doctrines of Islam andcompare them to the Bible. I. The Doctrine of GodIslam correctly opposes idolatry and teaches that there isonly one God. But more is needed (James 2:19). So considerfurther: A. Islam Says Jesus Is Not Divine.Muhammad taught there is only one Divine Being in God. Hedenied the Deity of Jesus, saying He was just a man - a greatprophet, but not the Divine Son of God. (Qur’an 4:162-171; 6:100,101;19:88-92) The Bible says Jesus is Divine.John 1:1,14 - Jesus (the Word) was God, was withGod in the beginning, and became flesh to dwell among men as a man.
Colossians 2:9 - In Jesus dwells all the fullness of theGodhead bodily.
John 20:28,29 - Thomas called Jesus "my Lord and my God."Jesus pronounced a blessing on all others who believe the same (cf.vv 30,31).
How can Muslims deny these teachings and yet claim to believethe Bible is true and Jesus was a prophet?
[Phil. 2:6-8; Heb. 1:8,9; Tit. 2:13; Isa. 9:6; John 8:58; 5:23]
Post time 13-5-2016 05:32 PMFrom the mobile phone|Show all posts
Kalau debat pun tak guna. Ini hakikatnya yg sebenarnya berlaku :
Dan kalau mereka bersungguh-sungguh menegakkan (menjalankan perintah-perintah Allah dalam) Taurat dan Injil dan apa yang diturunkan kepada mereka dari Tuhan mereka (Al-Quran), nescaya mereka akan makan (yang mewah) dari atas mereka (langit) dan dari bawah kaki mereka (bumi). Di antara mereka ada sepuak yang adil, dan kebanyakan dari mereka, buruk keji amal perbuatannya.
(Al-Maaidah 5:66)
Post time 13-5-2016 05:34 PMFrom the mobile phone|Show all posts
Katakanlah: "Wahai Ahli Kitab! Kamu tidak dikira mempunyai sesuatu agama sehingga kamu tegakkan ajaran Kitab-kitab Taurat dan Injil (yang membawa kamu percaya kepada Nabi Muhammad) dan apa yang diturunkan kepada kamu dari Tuhan kamu (iaitu Al-Quran)" Dan demi sesungguhnya, apa yang diturunkan kepadamu (wahai Muhammad) dari Tuhanmu itu, akan menambahkan kederhakaan dan kekufuran kepada kebanyakan mereka. Oleh itu janganlah engkau berdukacita terhadap kaum yang kafir itu.
(Al-Maaidah 5:68)
Post time 9-5-2016 11:00 PM
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The religion ofIslam claims that Muhammad (Mohammed) was as great a prophet as JesusChrist, that the Qur’an (Koran or Quran) succeeded the New Testament, and that Muslim (Moslem) teachings should be followed instead ofChristianity. In this study we compare the evidence for Islam tothe evidence for Jesus as revealed in the Bible: fulfilledprophecy, miracles, and the resurrection. Was Jesus the DivineSon of God crucified to save us from our sins, or is there justone individual Being in God (Allah)?
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