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wkk5159 posted on 20-6-2013 07:57 PM 
The facts that muslims are persecuting the minority are mounting and the evidences are all around us ...
Ha ha , dubious pie chart? It is taken from historical data by a Professor teaching history in a reknown University. You are just a layman with zilch historical knowledge. Your big problem is that you argue based on speculation. When confronted with data , you just refuse to accept facts. The following comment from Prof Juan Cole fits you :
It takes a peculiar sort of blindness to see Christians of European heritage as “nice” and Muslims and inherently violent, given the twentieth century death toll I mentioned above.
A person like you who ascribe to dubious sites like
- faith freedom
- atlas shrug
No wonder you are peculiarly blind in addition to the fact that you are a racist of a christian bigot.
It doesn't matter if the people you mentioned were motivated by greed , they were christians. Not very christians were these people yeah. It shows that seperation from church and state does not solve any problems. Christians still tops in violence and killing whether the church is one with the state or otherwise.
Can I now make the conclusion that christianity is a blood thirsty religion? The data says yes. What say you?
Last edited by sam1528 on 20-6-2013 10:13 PM
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Nope ! The data just proves otherwise, and worse still the hardcore evidences around us just substantiate my point.
Just to share a famous atheist blogger Daniel Midgley sharing; http://goodreasonblog.blogspot.c ... in-world-2012.html. Even though i don't agree 100% with him but he got most points right here.
Islam: Worst Religion in the World 2012
Congratulations, Islam! You've won this year's award for Worst Religion in the World. Christians were trying for it with the whole Chick-Fil-A thing, but you really clinched it when your followers rioted and murdered people because they felt offended by a really bad film.(still remember that amateur movie which "insulted" Islam ?)
You know, every other religion in the world has pretty much chilled the fxxk out about this kind of thing. Buddhists don't rampage in 20 countries when their religion is challenged. Hindus — okay, admit it, Hindus, you've had your moments, but nothing like this. Christians cop it all the time on the blasphemy front, and they don't storm embassies. Hell, they've invited me to debates in their own churches, where I've challenged their religion, and even told them that their god must be kind of dumb. And then they invite me back. Do you know what that does? It shows people that their faith is robust. Your rioting shows the world that your god is so weak that he can't protect himself, and needs his butthurt followers to enact violence on his behalf.
Let's not let Christianity off the hook entirely. They acted like homicidal loons when they could get away with it. In the early American colonies as recently as the 1600s, you could be punished or put to death for blasphemy. It's just one of the things religion in general is so good at: creating these non-negotiable zones where certain beliefs or values are held as holy, and setting people up for needless conflict.
How did Christianity calm down? Christianity didn't move from Inquisitions to PR departments by themselves. They were pushed by an emerging tradition of secularism in Western countries since the Enlightenment. Secularism tamed Christianity, and needs to continue. But Islam — you need to catch up.
I don't know if this is a real Arabic proverb or not — it was marked as such when I first heard it — but it's worthy of consideration anyway:
He who takes offence when offence is not intended
is a fool.
He who takes offence when offence is intended
is a fool. Last edited by wkk5159 on 21-6-2013 09:30 AM
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wkk5159 posted on 20-6-2013 11:37 PM
Nope ! The data just proves otherwise, and worse still the hardcore evidences around us just substan ...
Ha ha , you are just harping and whining. This is real funny. A christian appealing to atheist source for comfort. You are good at truncating timelines. Why only 2012? Christianity has been around for 2000 years and Islam 1400 years. Throughout the years , christianity tops in religious and political killings.
Another harping whining from you with absolutely no supportive data. That is why I question your intelligence and mentality. You seem to favor rhetorics over substance. You still cannot refute that historical data shows that Christianity lead the others in violence and killings. Others are just playing catchup.
You need to start refuting me with real data and facts. I reproduce the data from Prof Juan Cole :
Awaiting your answer. There is truth in Prof Cole's comment. Christians like you are peculiarly blind when it comes to the truth about christianity and political / religious violence. Heck , you believe a god can die. Therefore being blind to the truth is nothing new to you.
Last edited by sam1528 on 21-6-2013 12:48 AM
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Strange that you should gloss over this Prof Juan Cole, an excerpt from wikipedia,
"Cole was from a mixed Catholic and Protestant heritage but was brought up a non-denominational Protestant on army bases. In the late 1960s and the 1970s he became interested in Eastern religions, including Buddhism. Cole became a member of the Bahá'í Faith in 1972 as an undergraduate at Northwestern, and the religion later became a focus of his academic research. He resigned from the faith in 1996 after disputes with Bahá'í leadership concerning the Bahá'í system of administration, especially demands by the administration to censor his writings. After 1996 he became uninterested in organized religion as a personal matter."
It is very obvious that he is very disenchanted with Christianity, and moved from buddhism and then to Bahai, then as it did not suit him, he renounced all organised religions.
NOT the kind of man i would depend on in terms of opinion on religion. And do post the comments after that blog, because some readers were very critical of how he assessed those figures that came to 100 million killed by christians - which suggested that the wars were fought over religion rather than political reasons.
If anyone had some reading of the first and second world wars, you will realise that the First World War was only fought in Europe and it's not a religious war; and as for the Second World War, again most of the dead were americans, europeans and buddhist asians - and it is also not a religious war.
In fact, the last time Christians had a holy war, was during the Crusades as WKK5159 pointed out.
What muslims fail to separate in their mind, is that the remaining 85% of the world who are non-muslim CAN differentiate between a religious war and a political one. As you would have noticed, i did not bring up the Irag-Iran wars because it was mainly political.
The topic of argument here is why do some men kill using religion as a launchpad against those who do not believe like he does, even to the point of killing another person of the same faith but different in interpretation.
When have you last heard a christian suicide bomber screaming 'praise Jesus' and blowing up in a Cafe of innocent patrons.
Again i have to refer to the interpretation of -
"Al-Quran 2:190
Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed Allah does not like transgressors."
This verse can be interpreted in 2 ways. The non-violent muslim will say the verse means " Fight those who fight you, and do not if they do not fight you" - something equivalent to the american saying 'fire only when you are fired upon'.
The militant muslim, would take an event eg a burning of a page from the Quran, a cartoon drawn of Muhammad, a muslim sect that believes Muhammad is not the last prophet - a perceived 'fight' to ignite the spark that sees unreasoned violence on those that are perceived to be part of that violation. But the muslim's interpretation of a qualified target is unreasoned - if an american did it then an american must die (man, woman or child), if a heretic muslim transgresses then he only deserves death. The perpetrator could be a continent away but the qualified target is someone near(unrelated bystander unfortunate to be born white, american, non-muslim, or Ahmadiya).
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Hahaha....the same old rancid pie chart pop out again ! What ? You ran out of ideas or facts, is it ?
I gave real life example but this muslim appeals to some dubious pie chart, and best of all, he quoted the resources from Prof Cole, most likely a atheist or a nominal Christian. Then, came another moral question here, why accused other of quoting a atheist source when you yourself are appealing to a non-muslim source. Time and time again this muslim just prove to the world that hypocrisy is synonymous with Islam.
Seems like this muslim is evading the dilemma which is plaguing his religion, it is obvious that he can't and will not be able to answer it because every truth seeking earthlings know that Islam won't be able to defend itself on its own merits , which is why Muslim societies usually rely on threat and violence to suppress intellectual critique of Islam and the freedom of other religion to fairly compete. According to its own texts, Islam was founded in terror, and its political and social code is deeply incompatible with universal liberal values.
By the way, i'm not a Christian to begin with since i'm not baptized and i'm just emotional more gravitate towards anything which is benign and good. So, don't chicken out when addressing your religious issues, you don't solve the problem by accusing others and in fact it can only make the matter worse by blaming Christianity and any other faiths which inevitably will further tarnish the image of Islam. It's time to grow up !
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mashimaru83 posted on 20-6-2013 06:36 PM
Al-Quran 2:190
Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed Alla ...
Excuse me ... Non-believers DID disappear during Muhammad's time, and even after his death, his four friends continued his "quest". You are talking as if Muhammad have allowed multi-belief system in Arab Saudi. He did not; he went to war with the Jews and Christians, had instructed Muslims not to interact with non-Muslims socially and if they have reached majority and military strenght, to force Jizya on them to the point that they will break economically.
Bottomline - All Non-Muslims are "guilty". Muhammad had instructed them on what to do clearly :
1. Force them to pay Jizya if they are tolerant.
2. Bombarb them with doubts and abuses so they could doubt their own belief and come over to Islam.
3. Kill those who could oppose as a threat.
4. Make sure they (non-Muslims) do not unite as a race which could become a threat.
It is all there and that is what Muslims (including those in Malaysia who are following No. 1, 2, 4) are doing. It is people like you, who either too stupid to accept Islam is Evil OR believe we are too stupid and that you can get away with being tolerant and nice and a potrayal a "good person = good Muslim" nonsense.
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mashimaru83 posted on 18-6-2013 10:25 AM
Peace be with you. May I know, what is the source of history that you were referring to?
Peace be upon you too... sorry for the late reply... Although I read and listened to many religious talks, I hope this particular link will help to give some clarity....
http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=articles&id=134510
"When Almighty Allah sent His last and greatest Prophet, Muhammadsallallaaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, , humankind was immersed in a state of degeneration. The messages of the past prophets had been distorted and ignored, civilization was on the decline and humanity had slumped into an age of darkness, with disbelief, oppression and corruption prevalent everywhere. The condition of the world at that time presented the gloomiest picture ever of human history.
At the time of the birth of Prophet Muhammad,  , there existed two great powers on earth: one in the East and another in the West. In the East there was the Persian Empire, and in the West, the Roman Empire. As it might be expected, these two powers were actively hostile and almost permanently at war with one another. As a result, they were weak and disunited, though appearing to be otherwise. Despite their disunity and weakness, they made no serious effort to eradicate the causes of their instability.
The Arabs were living under no better conditions. They were families and tribes comprising different attitudes and feelings; but they were all similar in one respect: they were slaves of habits and impulses. They used to take pride in invasion and plunder. Moreover, they were so low in their moral affairs that a number of them used to bury their daughters alive."
To know more we can also listen to this talk by Mufti Ismail Menk... I love his talks as it is very clear and conscience... there are several parts, think about 29 parts altogether... I just give these 2 parts before the birth of Prophet Muhammad saw... it is best to listen to all the videos to understand clearly on why and how Prophet Muhammad saw lead his ummah to the straight path...
Life of Muhammad (PBUH) by Mufti Menk Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idyKz3DeORA&list=PL7DA6AEB6CC04C068
Life of Muhammad (PBUH) by Mufti Menk Part 2http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtqG0RqrjJI&list=PL7DA6AEB6CC04C068
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Sephiroth posted on 21-6-2013 10:18 AM
Excuse me ... Non-believers DID disappear during Muhammad's time, and even after his death, his fo ...
@Sephiroth
Excuse me ... Non-believers DID disappear during Muhammad's time, and even after his death, his four friends continued his "quest".
Did you mean ALL non-believers? It certainly not all since you mentioned they need to pay Jizya if they tolerant. Logicallly they still exist. Kindly fix your logic as it has flaws; it doesn't truely tell the actual situation especially on the killing of innocent people.
@Sephiroth
Bottomline - All Non-Muslims are "guilty". Muhammad had instructed them on what to do clearly :
Again, I only deal with the issue on evidential basis. Kindly bring forward the evidence which in this case the actual instruction so that we can assess your claim accordingly.
Last edited by mashimaru83 on 21-6-2013 10:39 AM
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nightlord posted on 21-6-2013 09:16 AM
Strange that you should gloss over this Prof Juan Cole, an excerpt from wikipedia,
"Cole was from ...
I appeal to Prof juan Cole as he provides data and facts in his argument. Not much can be said about yours nor 'wkk5159' arguments which are devoid of facts. Prof Juan Cole's opinion is based on facts not bias towards any religion. There are comments against his opinion but no supportive data. Most of the comments are in support of his opinion.
The thing is this , war and political violence are forbidden in any religion however christians still tops in this field. Separation of state and church still does not make any difference. You missed the point of your very own topic. An example , the Iraq invasion was called a crusade by ex president Bush. His top former general , Boykin , deemed it to be a crusade as he was an evengelical christian. What say you? The Christians still tops in killing in world history. Christians are not in any moral high ground. The hypocrisy is in your court.
Crying 'Allah hu Akbar' does not make it a religious theme. The point you should investigate is what is the root cause of such behavior. You are looking at symptom and not root cause. In fact , the analysis by Prof Pape , the leading expert in terrorism, states that religion has got nothing to do with terrorism in Islam if you had read the book 'Dying to Win'.
Now you bring Quran2:190? There are no 2 ways to interpret the verse. It clearly states 'those who fight you'. How do you manage to interpret the verse to mean 'fight without reason'?
The bigger question here is why burn the Quran or insult a religion in the first place? Don't you know how to respect others in the first place? The problem here is that christianity as a faith has been eroded from the Christian beliefs that you feel it ok to insult your man god. This is what happen when you treat your man god to be your buddy. The bible advocates death to people who show contempt of god's prophets / priests / judge (deut17:12). Where in the Quran / Hadiths that states that it is the death penalty for insulting the faith? Why are you making up issues? Even in the case of apostasy , the Quran is silent however the bible advocates death.
This comment of yours is interesting :
But the muslim's interpretation of a qualified target is unreasoned - if an american did it then an american must die (man, woman or child), if a heretic muslim transgresses then he only deserves death. The perpetrator could be a continent away but the qualified target is someone near(unrelated bystander unfortunate to be born white, american, non-muslim, or Ahmadiya).
The invasion of Iraq / Afghanistan was on the basis of 'a supposed muslim did it therefore they should die'. This is exactly the minsdet of the the evengelical Christian of ex president Bush. The millions dead are just collateral damage. You should bear in mind that bin Laden was recruited , trained and well funded by the americans. Ex president Bush claimed that his God spoke to him. Isn't such a religious motivation for killings? Can you address such.
Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq ." And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me
Like I stated , Christians are not in any moral high ground. Last edited by sam1528 on 21-6-2013 12:58 PM
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wkk5159 posted on 21-6-2013 09:25 AM
Hahaha....the same old rancid pie chart pop out again ! What ? You ran out of ideas or facts, is it ...
Ha ha , your post is full of nonsense. You are just harping and whining. You cannot accept any data that shows christians are worse off in religious and political killings. In other words you are 'peculiarly blind' per Prof Juan Cole.However you appeal to fantasy writings of the unknown Ali Sina and the racist Pam Geller. So much so for your level of intelligence. You still have not answered me. Where is your data to refute Prof Juan Cole's data / facts that Christians tops in religious / political killings. I reproduce the data :
For your info , the blue section represents christianity.
You can't refute me , can you? That explains your aimless whining and harping.
Ha ha , your previous posts , you 'die die' claim to be a christian. When hammered with facts that you cannot answer , you easily renounce your faith. This is evidence that you are just like a driftwood with no principles.
If you claim Islam is founded by terror , where is your evidence? I can say Christianity is founded by terror as an innocent person was supposedly put to death for the wrong doing of another. Isn't such the basis of terror , killing the innocent?
Last edited by sam1528 on 21-6-2013 12:48 PM
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sam1528 posted on 21-6-2013 12:34 PM
Ha ha , your post is full of nonsense. You are just harping and whining. You cannot accept any dat ...
Poor old senile demented ustazy who can't even recall from my recent thread which he also participated that i mentioned not only on one ocassion that i wasn't baptized. So, technically i'm not even a Christan. What ? Pseudodyslexia again ?
Seems like this poor old ustazy really run out of substantial agument that he has to resort to recycle his beloved pie chart again and again, and this poor soul seems to have very limited mastery of english vocab as he uses the term whining and harping repeatedly.....
Anyway, this poor old senile ustazy just fully manifest the true colour of islam when he shamelessly claimed that muslims who shouted "Allah Hu Akbar" when carrying out sucide bombing does not make it a religious theme BUT those wars perpetrated by any bloke from a "Christian" majority nation must be blamed on Christianity. This is ultimate manifestation of hypocrisy in its finest form.
Excerpt from my previous post; I gave real life example but this muslim appeals to some dubious pie chart, and best of all, he quoted the resources from Prof Cole, most likely a atheist or a nominal Christian. Then, came another moral question here, why accused other of quoting a atheist source when you yourself are appealing to a non-muslim source. Time and time again this muslim just prove to the world that hypocrisy is synonymous with Islam.
Really.....HYPOCRISY is the name of the game for muslims !
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Just an excerpt from that ustazy sam1528; The bible advocates death to people who show contempt of god's prophets / priests / judge (deut17:12). Where in the Quran / Hadiths that states that it is the death penalty for insulting the faith? Why are you making up issues? Even in the case of apostasy , the Quran is silent however the bible advocates death.
Where in the Quran / Hadiths that states that it is the death penalty for insulting the faith?
Really ? This ustazy either don't know his own Quran/Hadith or he is just another ubiquitous pathological liar in Islam whom we had seen too often ! And i believe he is most likely the latter . 
I'm quoting information from ex-muslims site because as ex-muslims, they knew their faith and most importantly, they are honest in exposing the truth. http://exmuslimblog.com/apostasy-in-islam-why-many-people-are-afraid-to-come-out-as-non-believers/#.UcP3-q4_JTs. Here are the excerpts;
When it comes to apostasy, it is a different story and a very big deal in Islam. Even though the Quran is very vague as to what the punishment should be for apostates, the Hadith (Mohammad’s teachings) is very clear that they should be killed.
Narrated ‘Abdullah:
Allah’s Apostle said, “The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.”
Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17
Narrated Ikrima: Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn ‘Abbas, who said, “Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, ‘Don’t punish (anybody) with Allah’s Punishment.’ No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, ‘If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.’ ”
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260
So there you have it, as you can see folks, muslims are not only the biggest hypocrite as testified in my previous post, they are also the greatest liars !
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Another excerpt from that ustazy sam1528; The bible advocates death to people who show contempt of god's prophets / priests / judge (deut17:12).
Really ?
Well, seems like this is just another lame argument from muslims which is so easily be debunked !
http://www.answering-islam.org/BibleCom/deut18-20.html |
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wkk5159 posted on 21-6-2013 02:41 PM
Poor old senile demented ustazy who can't even recall from my recent thread which he also particip ...
Hmm , The previous posts you consider yourself christian and now not a christian. What are you? Something in between? Ha ha , the problem you have is that you cannot even answer facts and questions about your christian theology. You are taking the easy way out. By saying you are not christian you want to avoid the difficult questions? Too bad for you. In short , you are a liar .... a poor one.
I asked for data. You just provide examples. You cannot even differentiate between data and an example. I again reproduce Prof Juan Cole data :
Historical data confirms ~ 95% or more killings in the 20th century were by christians. You have no answer but
- giving examples
- claiming the data is dubious
Where is your data to refute me? There is none of course. That is why your constant whining and harping.
Tsk - tsk , very poor of you. You cannot even refute the data but continue harping and whining. Save your harping and whining for someone else. Nobody wants to listen to such gibberish. Where is your data? If Prof Cole is an atheist or nominal christian , his data is dubious? You mean data from unknowns like Ali Sina , Sam Solomon , 'son of hamas' whose credentials are dubious at best , to you these people provide accurate data. There is something very wrong with you .... - 'peculiarly blind' person you are.
Ha ha , do you know the first suicide bombers post ww2 are christians. Try looking up : Lola Abboud , Elias Harb , Norma Hassan. Where did they learned it from? The bible of course in jud16:1-20 about biblical Samson , the first 'suicide bomber' in world history according to the bible. This is interesting about suicide bombers :
The first recorded suicide bombing came from Christian soldiers during the Crusades to free The Holy City of Jerusalem from the control of Muslim armies. During the Crusades, the Knights Templar destroyed one of their own ships with 140 Christians on board in order to kill 10 times as many Muslims in the opposing fleet.
Even in the Bible a reference is made to a suicide as a means of killing an enemy.
"And Samson said, 'Let me die with the Philistines!' And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life." Book of Judges 16:30, Old Testament.
What makes a person who shout 'Allah hu Akbar' before any suicide bombing a religious act? Provide your evidence. Hmm , another round of harping and whining again from you.
Looks like you are just a hypocrite of a christian .... oops , somewhere in between .... you are not even sure of yourself.
Last edited by sam1528 on 21-6-2013 06:14 PM
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See, still producing the same old rancid pie chart... best of all, a source from a disgruntled atheist, Prof Cole as explained in detail by Nightlord already. But i'm pretty sure he didn't understand what was written by Nightlord.
A true dumb, idea bankrupt muslim on parade here ! |
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wkk5159 posted on 21-6-2013 03:33 PM
Just an excerpt from that ustazy sam1528; The bible advocates death to people who show contempt of g ...
Lets expose your ignorance and deceit :
Allah’s Apostle said, “The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.”
Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17
Narrated Ikrima: Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn ‘Abbas, who said, “Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, ‘Don’t punish (anybody) with Allah’s Punishment.’ No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, ‘If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.’ ”
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260
Can you pinpoint where in bukhari 9:83:17 does it say these people must be killed? In Bukhari 4:52:260 , who said 'kill him'? It is a paraphrase by Ibn Abbas not the actual words of Prophet Muhammad(saw). You are unable to understand simple english.
The full version of bukhari 4:52:260 is bukhari 9:84:57
Some Zanadiqa were brought to Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying: Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire). I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle: Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.”
The word “Zanadiqa” translates to heretics, and here is referring to a group known as the Saba’iyya. The founder of this group, Ibn Saba, was believed by Muslims to be an enemy of the Islamic state who pretended to convert to Islam in order to instigate civil war and strife.
This shows that you have very poor grasp of your arguments.
Bukhari 9:83:17 is best explained by Sunan Abu Dawud, Vol. 4, Number 4353
“The blood of a Muslim, who confesses that none has the right to be worshiped but God and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: (1) a married person who commits adultery; he is to be stoned and (2) a man who went out fighting against God and His Messenger; he is to be killed or crucified or exiled from the land and (3) a man who murders another person; he is to be killed on account of it.
Therefore the 'leaving Islam' in context means that a person who went out fighting against the muslims. It follows the injunction of Quran5:33
The punishment of those who wage war against God and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: this is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.
Ha ha , it is so simple to prove that the 2 hadiths you appealed to are stating about people who waged war against the muslims. In fact there is a hadith injunction of not doing anything to a peaceful apostate. Bukhari 9:89:318
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
A bedouin gave the Pledge of allegiance to Allah's Apostle for Islam. Then the bedouin got fever at Medina, came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Cancel my Pledge," But Allah's Apostle refused. Then he came to him (again) and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Cancel my Pledge." But the Prophet refused Then he came to him (again) and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Cancel my Pledge." But the Prophet refused. The bedouin finally went out (of Medina) whereupon Allah's Apostle said, "Medina is like a pair of bellows (furnace): It expels its impurities and brightens and clears its good.
In other words , Islam only punish the apostates who wage war against muslims. The peaceful apostates are left as is.
You need to answer the following injunctions for killing of apostates in the bible :
deut13:6-9
6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known,
7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other),
8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them.
9 You must certainly put them to death.
joh15:6
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
Ha ha , let see how you explain executions of apostates in Christianity.
Oops , you are going to tell me that you are not a christian as an excuse to run away.
Last edited by sam1528 on 21-6-2013 06:06 PM
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wkk5159 posted on 21-6-2013 03:53 PM
Another excerpt from that ustazy sam1528; The bible advocates death to people who show contempt of god's prophets / priests / judge (deut17:12).
Really ?
Well, seems like this is just another lame argument from muslims which is so easily be debunked !
http://www.answering-islam.org/BibleCom/deut18-20.html
Ha ha , you must be nuts.
Hello! I am talking about deut17:12 and you are responding quoting deut18:20.
Do you understand what you read? Apparently not so ... your face / ears must be scarlet in embarrassment. Ha ha
Last edited by sam1528 on 21-6-2013 06:09 PM
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wkk5159 posted on 21-6-2013 04:08 PM
An interesting article by Nonie Darwish, an American ex-muslim of Arab/Muslim origin. http://www.ain ...
Ha ha , Nonie Darwish?
Another so called ex muslim caught in their own lies by Jim Holstun, a professor at SUNY Buffalo.
this argument sometimes requires a torturous chronology: “When, on January 16, 1956, Nasser vowed a renewed offensive to destroy Israel, the pressure on my father to step up operations increased. More fedayeen groups were organized, and their training expanded to other areas of the Gaza Strip. Often my father was gone for days at a time. In an attempt to end the terror, Israel sent its commandos one night to our heavily guarded home.”
The problem here is that this early, failed assassination attempt occurred in 1953, when Hafez was struggling to prevent destabilizing Palestinian infiltration from Gaza into Israel. Things changed dramatically in February 1955, when then military commander Ariel Sharon’s Gaza raid killed 37 Egyptian soldiers and wounded 31. This raid brought shocked international condemnation, the end of Israeli Prime Minister Moshe Sharett’s ongoing negotiations with Nasser, mass demonstrations of Palestinian refugees in the Gaza Strip, and Nasser’s decision to have Hafez organize and arm Palestinian fedayeen for cross-border forays. Israeli historians Avi Shlaim and Benny Morris see the raid as a turning point in Israeli-Arab relations. Darwish never mentions it.
This are the type of people that you appeal to? Others can appreciate the difference between us. I , a muslim appeal to credible academicians who are experts in their field of studies. You appeal to charlatans of dubious credentials like the non existent Ali Sina , Sam Solomon etc and now Nonie Darwish. Are you not embarrassed? Ha ha ... now you know why I question your intelligence and mentality?
Last edited by sam1528 on 21-6-2013 05:54 PM
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wkk5159 posted on 21-6-2013 05:02 PM
See, still producing the same old rancid pie chart... best of all, a source from a disgruntled ...
Ha ha , the standing challenge for you is to refute me with data and facts. I again reproduce the data from Prof Juan Cole :
You are just whining and harping to make up for the lack of data in your argument.
Your buddy 'nightlord' is like you. Both of you are unable to challenge the facts but go on a mindless diatribe of Prof Cole being a disgruntled Christian. Such is mindless harping and whining.
I want facts and data and not the constant harping and whining that you are famous for. By the way there is a difference between data and example. You seem to conflate the two.
Pssst .... the section in blue represents Christianity .... if you don't know how to read pie charts .... ha ha
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Post time 20-6-2013 10:12 PM
Author
