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You Can't Travel Back in Time, Scientists Say
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Originally posted by cipanbakar at 23-6-2007 10:03 PM
hei wei loon, long time no see. me busy with akademi fantasia lah. many2 hot chicks 
Ko tau saince juga ke? Ingat ko sesat kat board seks je 
white hole? i can't get it. it totally beyond me. black hole is real. we see it, we realise it and it happen everywhere. it is due to gravity. we can make it either. but what is white hole? what's the fundamental behind it?
No.. that is gravitational well... not black hole....
white hole is the concept of escaping black hole
let say if we want to make a black hole. its happen due to strong gravity, not even light can escape from it. actually i can understand it by referring to escape velocity. if any object want to escape from a planet or star, it must overcome the escape velocity. for earth, it is around 11km/s. so all satelite launch must pass this speed at once. so if we want to make the earth as a blackhole, we must make the escape velocity higher than the speed of light. the formula for escape velocity is V= squareroot (2GM/R) with constant G = 6.67E-11, M mass in kg and R jejari in m (what u call it in english? forget loh). for earth V= squareroot (2 X 6.67E-11 X 6E24 / 7E6) and i think the answer would be few milimeters. so if earth compressed to a few milimiters we can call it a blackhole(but the force needed only provided by supernova)
again... you cant make it.. that is gravitational well....
black hole is the steepest slope of gravitational well
for wormhole, its more doesn't make sense. although we call it blackhole but there is no hole. how come a blackhole without a hole can send u to another hole? neutron star and blackhole is just an object with high density which i think should be sphere mabye, but what's more important is it is not a hole. even after taking general relativity into consideration, i still can't get it. according to GM, the massive object curve the space. i can imagine it and for me it just like a house surrounding by drain. but there is still no hole! all mass sucked accrete around the blackhole and not just send to another hole. my 2 kupang 
again...... worm hole is between black and white hole.. please refer back to space time continumn.
see how mass distord space and time.
Yes... black hole form a steep well... and how deep is it? endless.... this well seemed to be tunnel and also seemed to be a worm hole.... a tunnel of space time!! |
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Reply #122 wei_loon5063's post
board sex boring la, sket2 nak delete. tak hardcore langsung
wormhole is between blackhole and whitehole? but where is it come from? this i quote from ur previous msg:
First the collapsed star form infinite density by contracting space into emptiness.
then the infinite mass form endless gravitational well.
collapse star's products depend on it mass. lower mass produce white dwarf, high mass produce neutron star and blackhole. so where is the emptiness come from? and wat u mean by 'infinite mass form endless gravitational well'? or do u mean infinite density |
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Originally posted by cipanbakar at 24-6-2007 03:16 PM
so where is the emptiness come from?
we are all in empytiness if you study qunatum mechanics
and wat u mean by 'infinite mass form endless gravitational well'? or do u mean infinite density
yes.... density.. when the star explodes, enormous strength that expand it contract it at the same time. and like a spring...
when the force equal and it will fall back and conpress into nothingness.... density= mass/volume
when volume= 0, density = infinity and the gravitatioanal well is very very steep..
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Originally posted by wei_loon5063 at 24-6-2007 05:10 PM
so where is the emptiness come from?
we are all in empytiness if you study qunatum mechanics
mind to explain regarding on this topic?
and wat u mean by 'infinite mass form endless gravitational well'? or do u mean infinite density
yes.... density.. when the star explodes, enormous strength that expand it contract it at the same time. and like a spring...
when the force equal and it will fall back and conpress into nothingness.... density= mass/volume
when volume= 0, density = infinity and the gravitatioanal well is very very steep..
totally different from my astrology knowledge 
there is no zero volume for the collapse star. during this stage, all the matter compress the core until the degenerate limit. during this time, it is surrounded by degenerate electron and can't compress anymore. no more compression mean no more additional heat that needed to trigger further reaction inside the core. and the star will just cool down to white dwarf. but for more massive star, it can surpass the degenerate limit. the electron will combine with proton to produce neutron. neutron volume is thousand time smaller than electron so it will shrink instantly to smaller size. neutron production release neutrinos and the massive number of neutrinos moving outward heat up and push all the matter outward as we regards as supernovae. and there it is neutron star or the remnant star's core. if the remain mass bigger than 3 times sun's, then it is blackhole. both have volume. and i still dont know where the gravitional well come from |
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Originally posted by cipanbakar at 24-6-2007 07:33 PM
mind to explain regarding on this topic?
What are atoms made of? quarks... what are quarks made of ? etc....
how atoms form molecule and form cell is biology
how cell form consciouness is phychology...
and what the quarks made out of? strings of energy....
there is no zero volume for the collapse star. during this stage, all the matter compress the core until the degenerate limit. during this time, it is surrounded by degenerate electron and can't compress anymore. no more compression mean no more additional heat that needed to trigger further reaction inside the core. and the star will just cool down to white dwarf. but for more massive star, it can surpass the degenerate limit. the electron will combine with proton to produce neutron. neutron volume is thousand time smaller than electron so it will shrink instantly to smaller size. neutron production release neutrinos and the massive number of neutrinos moving outward heat up and push all the matter outward as we regards as supernovae. and there it is neutron star or the remnant star's core. if the remain mass bigger than 3 times sun's, then it is blackhole. both have volume. and i still dont know where the gravitional well come from
You are right... that is asymtotes... or near zero but never approach zero.
this is astrophysics... not astrology  |
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wa wa....
getting interesting here |
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Reply #126 wei_loon5063's post
i need specific answer
First the collapsed star form infinite density by contracting space into emptiness.
then the infinite mass form endless gravitational well.
so where is the emptiness come from?
we are all in empytiness if you study qunatum mechanics
i know this quantum mechanic stuff. but i need to know how it relates with emptiness and the emptiness relates to gravitational well |
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Originally posted by ussopp at 24-6-2007 10:30 PM
wa wa....
getting interesting here
join the club la. would be more interesting |
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Originally posted by cipanbakar at 25-6-2007 08:35 PM
i know this quantum mechanic stuff. but i need to know how it relates with emptiness and the emptiness relates to gravitational well
wa macha... long story eh.....
how to begin eh.....
ermm......
you know quantum mechanics, string theory? what it is? how strings of nothing but energy vibrate that create atoms...
these atoms create molecules and then cell and then consciousness..... get it? Biology...
how your mind works la.. your mind from cell right? cell? from atom.. atom? from quarks.. quarks? from strings of enery..
what is energy? can you see, listen, smell or taste energy? no... yet you feel it and it exist and you know it is there.... |
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Originally posted by cipanbakar at 25-6-2007 08:35 PM
join the club la. would be more interesting
join lama dah...
cuma dari dulu niat nak baca semua post pasal relativity, quantum dan string threory ni ...
sebab sy ni tak dapat pickup2 lg benda ni...
kalo bley nak faham macamana einstein faham...
tptak start2 baca pun lagi..
takpa2 teruskan...sy nak baca dulu.. |
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Originally posted by wei_loon5063 at 25-6-2007 09:37 PM
wa macha... long story eh.....
how to begin eh.....
ermm......
you know quantum mechanics, string theory? what it is? how strings of nothing but energy vibrate that create ato ...
wei loon, how to explain conciousness in science huh...
do those quantum, relativity, string theory can explain this...
I think conciousness is the highest level of creation....dont you think... |
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Originally posted by ussopp at 25-6-2007 11:54 PM
wei loon, how to explain conciousness in science huh...
do those quantum, relativity, string theory can explain this...
I think conciousness is the highest level of creation....dont you think...
Consciousness? I still don have firm comprehension but I constantly update my knowledge from time to time....
Since this is a science board, we will try to justify and understand thing rather than put the world "soul" or God know best....
I believe in evolution... again.. we are diverted... should we discuss this in origin of life rather time time travel? |
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Reply #134 wei_loon5063's post
ok...
......................... |
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This is my understanding about consciousness....
it is our perception that make us aware of things around us... be it sight, hearing, touch,smell and taste....
with these senses we are consciouness about us in reality....
try sit in a quiet room.... you see nothing but darkness...
you hear nothing but silense...
you smell nothing
you feel nothing moving but your heart beat
you taste nothing but your saliva....
what do you think... are you consciousness?
Do this to test your consciousness....
you stare or listen to a thing.. anything... just one sense ok? not second...
e.g. stare at cup or lsiten to your heart beat only...
don stare at car and listen to its engine
stare deep... listen deep....
then you realise... a cup is not a cup... a cup is like other thing... nothing...
a cup is same as rock, leaf etc.... all same.. the cup is cup because we want it to be...
give it a try...
you will realise more on consciousness..... |
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Theories and Concepts
The question everyone wants answered is this: How do you travel in time? It is a simple question, but the answer is not quite as simple.
Where to begin? There are so many aspects. Let's begin with how time is calculated.
Relative Time (the Universal Time Factor)
To travel in time you will require computer hardware and software that is probably beyond the technology presently available to us. But all the silicon in the world won't help you overcome the biggest hurdle for the hardware. Dr. VonSchnelling puts it best:
| As I told my friend Albert, time is relative. A zecond is a zecond because vee zay it is a zecond. A day is a day because zat is the time it takes for our vorld to rotate once on its axis. On another vorld, it would be different. A machine has no concept of time. Certainly you can make a machine count forvard with quartz and crystal and mechanisms zat zimulate time, but zat is all it does... zimulate. How do you make a machine count... backwards? How am I to tell my computer "take me to June 16th, 1927"? And does the machine require me to input a precise time? Should I be precise to the minute? the zecond? the nanozecond? |
The Absolute Density of the Universe (the Bucket Factor)
A commonly ignored obstacle to time travel is the simple fact that the universe can only hold so much matter. This is commonly referred to as the "Bucket Factor" by our engineers. Again we refer you to Dr. VonSchnelling's notes:
Imagine zat zee universe is a bucket. zis bucket is full of water to zee brim. Zuppose now that a time traveller from zee future arrives in zis universe. Pretend zat your fist is zee time traveller. Plunge your fist into zee bucket. Water spills from zee bucket. You have just filled the universe with more mass zan it can zupport. You have just exploded zee universe. Zat is not good.
And what of the universe zat the time traveller has just left? Zere is now less mass in that universe zan zere should be. Zee inevitable conclusion is zat zuch an action would cause and immediate black hole zat would swallow zee entire universe. Zat is not good, either. |
The Theories
To understand the repercussions of time travel, you must understand quantum mechanics and quantum realities. Dr. VonSchnelling simplifies quantum realities for us:
Many of us understand the gist of quantum realities. Zimply put, every action creates an alternate universe. Examples of zis are numerous. Turn left down zis street and not right down zat street, and you will not have a car accident. You zimply need to ask yourself "vat if" to understand the repercussions of zuch a zeory. Vat if Napoleon had decided to get up one night for a znack and had tripped on his robe and broken his neck? What if zee cave man who discovered fire decided to zleep in zat day?
But quantum mechanics operates on a much smaller scale zan zat. The zeory proposes zat every minuscule action and event has an opposite. Entvine zis with zee chaoz zeory and time travel becomes quite dangerous.
Zuppoze your time traveller arrives in a grassy field. Every blade of grass crushed underfoot, every particle of oxygen he inhales and carbon dioxide he exhales, every cell of dead skin he sheds; it all has an effect on zee universe around him. Zpend one minute in zee past, and return to discover zat the President of the United States is not who you remember. |
Details
Logic would suggest that if time travel were ever to exist, then it already does. If time travel is possible, then the methods required will eventually be devised. Maybe it will take another 10 thousand years to discover the secrets of time travel, but if it's possible, then it's inevitable. Which suggests that time travellers are already visiting us... and visiting our past. What does that mean? To comprehend this, we must look at the many possible repercussions of time travel.
Theory A - Fate (Circular Causation) - Travel back in time to save someone's life only to discover that it cannot be avoided, or worse yet, you were in fact the cause of the person's death in the first place. This is amongst the most plausible theories.
Theory B - Alternate Universe - Travel back in time to save someone's life, succeed, return to your time to discover that nothing has changed... you've only changed the timeline of an alternate quantum reality. This theory is also amongst the most plausible.
Theory C - Success - Travel back in time to kill your great-grandfather and succeed. This theory is very unlikely since if you were to successfully kill your great-grandfather, you would inevitably never be born, and therefore never go back in time to kill your great-grandfather. Thus the paradox and the implausibility.
Theory D - Observer Effect - Travel back in time to alter history and succeed, but the only persons capable of differentiating between the reality left behind and the new reality are those directly associated with the time travel... the time traveller. The extent of the paradox rests in how the time traveller is affected. Existing "out of time", he may not be affected by whatever changes he inflicts on the timeline, thus the time traveller himself becomes a stranger in this "new" present. He may, in fact, go back in time, kill his great-grandfather, and return to the present to discover that there are no records of his own existance.
Dr. VonSchnelling has addressed these hurdles in his computations and he believes he has overcome them. We suppose only time will tell. |
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oh my god.......... this thread sound more fiction.... joking....
if we were able to build that... than let say i have a time machine beside me... i live in a positive-time universe... time gets longer.... then i want to travel back to the previous day.... would i simply jump to yesterday, or would my time be transformed from positive to negative? how will i encounter zero time? perhaps, space-time is quantised that i do not need to encounter zero time.... |
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LabRat This user has been deleted
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waa..
sudenly this tread become meriah semacam.
and become more complicated |
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logic please.....
an explaination must comes together with a proof...... |
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Category: Belia & Informasi
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Post time 23-6-2007 11:15 PM
Post time 24-6-2007 10:30 PM
Author
