Is God comprise of One, Two Or Three. One God BUT TWO

sonny~~

continue  :cry:

Final Judgment
Advanced Information
Final Judgment is the sentence that will be passed on our actions at the last day (Matt. 25; Rom. 14:10, 11; 2 Cor. 5: 10; 2 Thess. 1:7-10). The judge is Jesus Christ, as mediator. All judgment is committed to him (Acts 17:31; John 5:22, 27; Rev. 1:7). "It pertains to him as mediator to complete and publicly manifest the salvation of his people and the overthrow of his enemies, together with the glorious righteousness of his work in both respects." The persons to be judged are, (1) the whole race of Adam without a single exception (Matt. 25:31-46; 1 Cor. 15:51, 52; Rev. 20:11-15); and (2) the fallen angels (2 Pet. 2:4; Jude 6).

The rule of judgment is the standard of God's law as revealed to men, the heathen by the law as written on their hearts (Luke 12:47, 48; Rom. 2:12-16); the Jew who "sinned in the law shall be judged by the law" (Rom. 2:12); the Christian enjoying the light of revelation, by the will of God as made known to him (Matt. 11:20-24; John 3:19). Then the secrets of all hearts will be brought to light (1 Cor. 4:5; Luke 8:17; 12:2, 3) to vindicate the justice of the sentence pronounced. The time of the judgment will be after the resurrection (Heb. 9:27; Acts 17: 31). As the Scriptures represent the final judgment "as certain [Eccl. 11:9], universal [2 Cor. 5:10], righteous [Rom. 2:5], decisive [1 Cor. 15:52], and eternal as to its consequences [Heb. 6:2], let us be concerned for the welfare of our immortal interests, flee to the refuge set before us, improve our precious time, depend on the merits of the Redeemer, and adhere to the dictates of the divine word, that we may be found of him in peace."

(Easton Illustrated Dictionary)

sonny~~

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 2004-7-8 11:33 AM:
arguing with u just useless when the Bible says TWO

when God :

Let US make
Prophet Daniel saw Two   
Revelation God Throne TWO
Last day judgment God punsihed human and that is Jes ...

:hmm:
christsites.com
DANIEL’S VISIONS

The interpretation of the King of Babylon’s dream by Daniel the prophet and his own two visions of beasts was Yah showing us His plan for the age of man. The great statue of the King and the beasts Daniel saw has the same meaning and were verified by angels and history.

This is the way they appeared:
The Statue                                                 Vision I                              Vision II
Dan. 2:31-34                                           Dan. 7: 2-14                      Dan. 8: 2-13
Head of Gold                                             Lion
Chest/Arms of Silver                              Bear                                      Ram
Belly/Thighs of Bronze                           Leopard                               Goat
Legs of Iron                                                Fourth Beast                          Horn
Feet/Toes of Iron/Clay                          Little Horn

THE HEAD (Statue)

The head of gold on the King’s statue and the beast like a lion with wings as an eagle was the Neo-Babylonian Empire. It was in full power at the time of the King’s dream. We are told the head of the statue was Babylon represented by its King. The gold represented the kingdom's grandeur. There has never been in all of history a kingdom as grand as the Babylon Dynasty.

This empire, history tells us, was from 626 BC until around 539 BC. It boasts one of the world’s seven wonders, the famed Hanging Gardens. It was noted for staged temple-towers 295 feet high and several colossal golden statues weighing many tons each.

In his dream the King saw the statue standing upon the earth. The angel told Daniel the beasts he saw in his visions were kingdoms that rise up out of the earth. Now earth speaks of literal earthly kingdoms such as Babylon that was to play a part in human history and hold sway over mankind.

delete

sonny~~

i rest me case.  burrrppp  :kant:

Truth.8

The Gospel of John proves Jesus is God
The Gospel of John poses more problems for Unitarian theology than any other book of the Bible. Indeed, its theme can be summarized as describing Jesus Christ, the One who was fully God and fully man, and His teachings for those already converted. In order to refute Gnostic teachings that denied Jesus came in the flesh, but just appeared to have a body of flesh and blood (II John 7; I John 4:2-3), John also emphasized Jesus' humanity. Its opening verse affirms the Deity of Christ:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Since in verse 14

"the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us,"
the Word undeniably was Jesus. To evade this verse, Unitarians have argued that the "Word" merely was a thought in the Father's mind, since verses 2-3 refer to the "Word" impersonally. (For verse 2, the NASB literal marginal rendering is "This one.") This argument is simply not persuasive, since this "thought" is called "God," and because this "thought" was the Creator "itself" in verse 2:

"All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."
Could a mere "thought" alone in the Father's mind create the universe by itself?

Truth.8

The Apostle Thomas' Affirmation of Jesus' Identity

After His resurrection, Jesus confronted doubting Thomas, who replied in total astonishment,

"My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28).
Again, if Jesus wasn't God, this exclamation presented Him with the golden opportunity to correct Thomas' would-be mis-impression. But, of course, He did no such thing. Thomas wasn't using a irreverent euphemism, something which may be common today but was virtually unknown in his culture. Instead, remembering that Thomas' earlier devotion and service to Jesus shows he wouldn't casually throw around God's name in vain, in context his previous unbelief was overwhelmed, dazzled, and rebuked by the personal proof of Jesus' Deity by His resurrection from the dead.

The Gospel of John is full of statements by Jesus which no Old Testament prophet would dare make about himself, but which came naturally to Him.

"'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me'" (John 14:6).
"'I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies'" (John 11:25). "'

I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life'" (John 8:12).

"'I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins'" (John 8:24).

"'He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day'" (John 6:54). "'

I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned'" (John 15:5-6).

"'I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst'" (John 6:35).

"'All may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him'" (John 8:23).
Would have Daniel or Ezekiel even dream of uttering such thoughts in reference to themselves?

Truth.8

Jesus Was Worshipped

Since only God is worthy of worship (Matt. 4:10), if Jesus was worshiped by anyone without Him rebuking him (cf. Rev. 22:8-9; Acts 10:25-26; 14:12-15), that would prove His Deity. The Magi from the east

"came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell down and worshiped Him" (Matt. 2:11).
Now, the standard Unitarian/Arian reply states that the Greek word translated "worshiped" here is ambiguous. It can refer to people paying their respects to a king or high authority figure by bowing down to them. Hence, Jehovah's Witnesses, in their New World Translation, have "falling down, they did obeisance to it." But is this alternative translation always persuasive, given the context of the situation in which Jesus was "worshiped"? Consider when Jesus miraculously walked on water and controlled the weather by making the wind stop the moment He and Peter (who ran out on the water towards Him, only to sink) got back into their boat (Matt. 14:33):

"And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, 'You are certainly God's Son!'"
Having just so overawed them by demonstrating His powers over nature, as God has, was this mere "obeisance"? That hardly seems likely. Similarly, when the disciples first met Jesus after His resurrection (Matt. 28:9; cf. v. 17):

"They came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him." Considering Thomas' exclamation when he first met the risen Christ, is it plausible to think after Jesus' stunning victory of life over death that the disciples merely bowed down to Him as if he were a human king, as if He was Henry VIII?

Hebrews 1:6 states the angels worshiped Christ:

"And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says: 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'"Since Jesus in the immediate context is being deliberately contrasted with the angels (v. 4-5, 7), is this mere "obeisance" to a Being that Jehovah's Witnesses identify also as Michael the Archangel? Is Jesus then just a superior, but fellow, angel? Notice then Heb. 1:8:

"But of the son He says, 'Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever'"
Jehovah's Witnesses attempt to elude this verse by this alternative translation: "God is your throne forever and ever" (NWT). Although grammatically possible, is this sensible? How does God Himself become a "throne"? If this (somehow) means Jesus derives His authority from God, then He is no different from the angels that this verse is supposed to be contrasting Him with. Verse 10 cites from Ps. 102:25:

"And, 'Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of thy hands.'"
Identifying Jesus as the Creator, the author of Hebrews plainly applies to Jesus the Psalmist's words about Yahweh (notice Ps. 102:18, 20, 22). Since Jesus is Yahweh, He is surely worthy of the angels' worship!

One interesting reference about Jesus receiving worship as God obliquely occurs in Revelation 7:10-11, 17:

"And they cry out with a loud voice, saying, 'Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.' And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God. . . . for the Lamb in the center of the throne shall be their shepherd."
Notice how God sits on the throne in v. 10, and receives worship, but v. 17 affirms Jesus sits on that throne Himself! The worship that these great spirit beings gave to God on His throne can't possibly be downgraded to the kind of respect humans show when bowing to a king. Although it's affirmed indirectly, these verses still remain strong evidence for Jesus receiving worship.

[ Last edited by Truth.8 on 12-7-2004 at 10:29 AM ]

oakley_konatchi

waaaaaaaaaaa.............sooooooooooooo loooooooongggggggg...hehehe..malas to read all.....but i think most of it ..kira debate..and postings..and some bible verses...maybe ler..coz i read the 1 2 5 page jer...

wa...rajin nyer bace...but then..did any of u menghayati apa yang anda bace?? coz..i dun think so..coz it seems both are askin specific facts..specific verses...hardproof ler....well...the bible is not just a book to read...the words tidak emmbawa maksud yang terus,...as in..its not straight forward... if u hayati the words...baru ler dapat lihat kebenarannya..whether twoness ker...trinity ker..sorang -sorang ker...aaaa...like dat......:ah:

sonny~~

here SONNY come but a little later though  :cak:

Truth.8

Originally posted by sonny~~ at 30-7-2004 10:06 AM:
here SONNY come but a little later though  :cak:

pls come back because me waiting for u evidence that Jesus is not god. me hve proof Jesus is GOD accordingly Bible verses not my own words as the Bible says " It is written man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds forth from the mouth of God(Deut. 8:3 and Matt. 4:4)"

Meaning, Bible verses .....the word of God.


OK, me waiting.;)

[ Last edited by Truth.8 on 31-7-2004 at 10:51 AM ]

Truth.8

Originally posted by oakley_konatchi at 14-7-2004 01:59 AM:
waaaaaaaaaaa.............sooooooooooooo loooooooongggggggg...hehehe..malas to read all.....but i think most of it ..kira debate..and postings..and some bible verses...maybe ler..coz i read the 1 2  ...

well, u tell to Christ when HE returned.

Truth.8

"'I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins'" (John 8:24).


What I am HE? GOD:pray:






My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28).

[ Last edited by Truth.8 on 12-8-2004 at 04:00 PM ]

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 28-6-2004 03:59 PM:
Page 2 (cont'd 1)

Consider this : if the Holy Spirit was a third person
existing together with the Word and God, then John 1:1
should be written in this manner : In the beginning was the
Word and the Spirit, and the Word and the Spirit -were with
God, and were God.

But there is no such statement in the Book of John or
in the rest of the Bible. This itself proves God is not a
Trinity of Beings.
..

Peace be with u.

Bible reveals the mystery of Trinity God, pls search into the following verses from THE NEW AMERICAN BIBLE:

1. Isa 6:2-3 Seraphim cried holy, holy, holy,.... three times.

2. W.SOL 7:22-30 Description of Holy Spirit.

3. Luke 1:26-38

4. Matt 3:13-17

5. Mark 1:9-11

6. Luke 3:21-22

7.John 1:27-34

8. 2Cori 13:13 * The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the holy Spirit be with all of you.*

9. Eph 1:3-14

There's more, but i'm tired, will forward upon request.

Last but not least, "....baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit. ( matt 28:19 )

May God bless you.

Truth.8

Originally posted by treeza at 15-8-2004 10:13 PM:



Peace be with u.

Bible reveals the mystery of Trinity God, pls search into the following verses from THE NEW AMERICAN BIBLE:

1. Isa 6:2-3 Seraphim cried holy, holy, holy,.... three times.

2. W.SOL 7:22-30 Description of Holy Spirit.

3. Luke 1:26-38

4. Matt 3:13-17

5. Mark 1:9-11

6. Luke 3:21-22

7.John 1:27-34

8. 2Cori 13:13 * The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the holy Spirit be with all of you.*

9. Eph 1:3-14

There's more, but i'm tired, will forward upon request.

Last but not least, "....baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit. ( matt 28:19 )

May God bless you....

Holy spirit is spirit frm God the father and Jesus because  God  and Jesus consider spirit and  Holy that comes to Holy spirit.

BTW, mind showing me the word trinity in the Bible?

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 16-8-2004 12:42 AM:


Holy spirit is spirit frm God the father and Jesus because  God  and Jesus consider spirit and  Holy that comes to Holy spirit.

BTW, mind showing me the word trinity in the Bible?

Dear Truth.8,  

Long before Newton's discovery of gravity force, gravity existed though not a single book has written the word " gravity force" then.

When u introduce your spouse & children to me, I know & recognise you & them are one as a family. I do not need you to mention the word "family" in order to understand u+spouse+children=family. Mind u, though more than one person, still yours are "one family but multiple persons of different outlooks and capabilities".  

As you speak about H2O to science students, they know that you are talking about water without mentioning the word "water".

from the Bible verses quoted eralier, I clearly understand that Father, Son and the holy Spirit are one, just like a family of multiple members but still is one family, and accept Church's teachimg that the holy Bible reveals that God is Trinity.

I respect your views & opinions, and I beleive we do have difference of opinions. It should not prevent us from sensible discussion until questions are anawered, hopefully. I still like to remain as a follower of Christ and behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foudation of truth. (1 TIMO 3:15)


:gantuk::gantuk::gantuk:

Truth.8

Originally posted by treeza at 16-8-2004 11:38 PM:



Dear Truth.8,  

Long before Newton's discovery of gravity force, gravity existed though not a single book has written the word " gravity force" then.

When u introduce y ...

at least i am quoting from Bible verses to support my claimed that Holy spirit is not trinity, rite. where else u and rest christian only give view and opinion. The Bible made it clear that Men shall not live by bread alone but every words that come from God. Are u living with standard of God words or just another opinion and views which suite ur faith? Many christians prefer short cut thats why they says "

ok to eat unclean meat
ok to worshipped idols
ok to celeberate christimas
ok to pray to dead soul and etc

all this OK is not OK to True God.

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 17-8-2004 04:47 PM:



at least i am quoting from Bible verses to support my claimed that Holy spirit is not trinity, rite. where else u and rest christian only give view and opinion. The Bible made it clear that M ...

Peace be with u.:ah::ah::ah:

Bible reveals the mystery of Trinity God, pls search into the following verses from THE NEW AMERICAN BIBLE:

1. Isa 6:2-3 Seraphim cried holy, holy, holy,.... three times.

2. W.SOL 7:22-30 Description of Holy Spirit.

3. Luke 1:26-38

4. Matt 3:13-17

5. Mark 1:9-11

6. Luke 3:21-22

7.John 1:27-34

8. 2Cori 13:13 * The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the holy Spirit be with all of you.*

9. Eph 1:3-14

There's more, but i'm tired, will forward upon request.

Last but not least, "....baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit. ( matt 28:19 )

Aren't the above Bible Clauses, my dear friend.

As man are creatures of senses, emotions and limitations, thus we need to exercise logics, quote real life examples,using stories to help us to understand and comprehen teachings in the Bible. Reading the Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke & John, we'll find Lord Jesus himself used parables, daily living things, plants, animals, & stories to teach the disciples. He also live up to His Word by action.

   
May God bless you.... :hug::hug::hug:

Truth.8

Originally posted by treeza at 17-8-2004 09:05 PM:

Peace be with u.

Bible reveals the mystery of Trinity God, pls search into the following verses from THE NEW AMERICAN BIBLE:

1. Isa 6:2-3 Seraphim cried holy, holy, holy,.... three times.

2. W.SOL 7:22-30 Description of Holy Spirit.

3. Luke 1:26-38

4. Matt 3:13-17

5. Mark 1:9-11

6. Luke 3:21-22

7.John 1:27-34

8. 2Cori 13:13 * The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the holy Spirit be with all of you.*

9. Eph 1:3-14

There's more, but i'm tired, will forward upon request.

Last but not least, "....baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit. ( matt 28:19 )

Aren't the above Bible Clauses, my dear friend.

As man are creatures of senses, emotions and limitations, thus we need to exercise logics, quote real life examples,using stories to help us to understand and comprehen teachings in the Bible. Reading the Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke & John, we'll find Lord Jesus himself used parables, daily living things, plants, animals, & stories to teach the disciples. He also live up to His Word by action.

   
May God bless you.... ,.. ...

i hve search but nothing about trinity. the Holy Holy Holy did not indicate trinity.

instead of quoting me . Luke 1:26-38

4. Matt 3:13-17

5. Mark 1:9-11

6. Luke 3:21-22

7.John 1:27-34

why just write it down. Read my topic frm begining, I quote each verses with words.

is that u afraid to defend ur faith???
:hug::hug::hug::hug:

sonny~~

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 2004-7-9 08:07 PM:
The Gospel of John proves Jesus is God
The Gospel of John poses more problems for Unitarian theology than any other book of the Bible. Indeed, its theme can be s ...

read  

peace

Is Jesus God the Father?
by
William Arnold III
WmArnold@apostolic.net
---------------------------------

Shema Israel YHWH elohanu YHWH echad, "Hear O Israel, Yaweh is our God. Yaweh is one" (Deut. 6:4).

There is only one God. This is the emphatic teaching of the Old Testament. The Jews were the people who knew their God if anyone did (John 4:22), and they had no concept of persons within the Godhead. In the book of Isaiah God makes some very strong statements which I believe do not allow for a Trinitarian understanding. In Isaiah 44:6&8 God makes the statement, "I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me . . . Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." Could scripture be any plainer than this? In verse 24 he states, "I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone." If language means anything then "by Myself" and "alone" mean that there was no other person present. If God is not claiming that he is absolutely one here, then what stronger language would one suggest to convey this? Why would God be so emphatic about oneness, if in reality he were three persons?
(DELETE)

sonny~~

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 2004-7-9 08:11 PM:
The Apostle Thomas' Affirmation of Jesus' Identity

After His resurrection, Jesus confronted doubting Thomas, who replied in total astonishment,

"My Lord and ...

read  

peace

christadelphian.org.uk
The Divinity of Jesus
by Mike Nassau

The idea of the Trinity is not one that is found in the Bible. Far from being part of the same being, God and Christ are quite separate. Consider the following verse, 1 Timothy 2:5: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus". A mediator is a go-between. For Christ to mediate between God and men he must be separate from God, just as he is separate from the individual people he mediates for; if Christ was part of God then this verse would be nonsense.

sonny~~

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 2004-7-9 08:22 PM:
Jesus Was Worshipped

Since only God is worthy of worship (Matt. 4:10), if Jesus was worshiped by anyone without Him rebuking him (cf. Rev. 22:8-9; Acts 10:25-2 ...

read  

peace

The Divinity of Jesus
by Mike Nassau
Christadelphian website

1 Corinthians 8:6 also speaks plainly of God and Christ as separate: "But to us there is but one God, the Father, ... and one Lord Jesus Christ". If God the Father and Christ were part of the one being, why would these words have been written? If they were part of the Trinity, why is there no reference to the Holy Spirit here? The only reasonable answer is that God, the Father is a totally separate being from Jesus Christ.