What does it mean?

hamizao

Need to discuss it? Put it here.

Albert Einstein said: "No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it." What do you understand from this?

Pygmalion

tak paham...

abangbikerz

maksudnye ialah sesuatu masalah tidak akan dpt disolvekan jika org yg mencipta maslah itu masih berpemikiran ditakuk lama.

Agul

Change your conciousness. Your state of being. Then you can talk about outward and external changes.

ZamZamAlaKazam

... I would hazard a guess that he doesn't mean two cars plus a bicycle equals three transports, nor does he have a problem with a laplace's equation.

The man who can envision traveling on a light and came up with theory of relativity must have done so when his consciousness is way out of the matrix, that or he is an alien.

What he saw was natural, but what then explained the natural was not exactly correct.  I think we must never take something that is not proven completely correct as the truth.  Not everything though, but selective reasoning.  Or is it intelligent questioning ?  How about absolute truth then ?
As problem solving, I would say that once we see a problem that we like to solve, ie on that level of awareness, we are supposed to go beyond the obvious or what is known, try to elevate our understanding to a higher level in finding solution, answer, etc.  In a sense at one level, you are in a problem development, that is articulating your understanding of a problem, etc.  and later you are in an idea development stage, that is educing logical reasoning, thought through the possibilities, or analyzing.  Personally I think that it is more of an idea incubation and cultivation, rather than straight forward simple day to day problem.

It is not to be confused with thinking out side the box, paradigm shift, re-engineering and its ilk.

Spiritually though,... that would be more interesting discourse.

Agul

I don't rememeber einstein sating directly about travellin on lights but teleportation has It's been proven. Matter at one location can influence another matter at different location.

Check relativity, string theory, theory of everything or theory of ends. It has happened and observed scientifically.

Now they aer trying to understand it. If they can't they need to find new theories to explain that.

So our mind are playing catch up with physics observation.

Human thinks that theya re sp smart but they are not. The average person usually thinks he is smarter than those physicist and scientist.

The smarter you think you are, the stupider you actually are. Sometime I think I'm smart, then I realize how stupid I actually am.

ZamZamAlaKazam

6# Agul

...I stand corrected.  What I mean is that Einstein imagined himself traveling at the speed of light and came up with all these seemingly absurd and to some extent illogical explanations, in fact he was ridiculed for his theories by most of his peers early on until it was proven during a solar eclipse, and his famous equation some 20 years or so later.  Just to show that natural phenomena, ie speed of light, observed, or is it imagined ?, by a sharp and discriminating mind can explained and make clear of things.  What should be is not what really is.

Thus seeing a problem, through current understanding, requires new explanation or perception, ie different level of thinking.

Take quantum physics for example.  It does explained the natural but hardly observable nor replicable, esp the more bizarre, strange & fantastic .  But does it mean it doesn't exist, or out an out wrong.  What's wrong with explaining nature with probability as opposed to giving a definite but ultimately incorrect or not exact answer / explanation ?  It shows that natural world  has its own built in limitation to our understanding of its inner working.  Not everything is precisely measurable...

However, I do not agree with the presumption in teleportation.  If you teleport an inanimate object, it might be possible.  If you teleport a living being, it is possible if life is defined as energy, what about your soul then ? Can you teleport a plant?  If you teleport a seed, will the teleported seed sprout ?  Anyway, stuff of sci-fi almost always turns up as common later in the future.

I do agree that at times, when we think we are intelligent being, our actions manifestly defy ethics, our logic for doing it defy common sense.

When we see the morally wrong world, do our collective behaviour contributed to this state.  In a world where moral wrong exist, how you correct it.  What level of consciousness is required ???

Agul

6# Agul

...I stand corrected.  What I mean is that Einstein imagined himself traveling at the speed of light and came up with all these seemingly absurd and to some extent illogical explanations, ...
ZamZamAlaKazam Post at 1-10-2009 09:14

I am not intersted in discussing teleportation of inanimate or animate object as at best it will be just personal opinion not backed by scientific knowledege or experiments. IMHO, my opinion on it possibilites have no values whatsoever and discussion of it will at best just be a mental orgy. Regarding teleportation of soul, I have certain experience that I will not discuss here.

However teleportation of laser beam has been conducted succesfully. So it is possible to do that. Then we'll see if matter can be teleported. And then living things and so on and so forth.

Agul

The essence of change is always one of two things:

You are either going to do a different thing, or you're going to
do things differently.

wei_loon5063

maksudnya.... orang bodoh buat salah, tak tau nak selesai, nak cari orang pandai selesai laa

Agul

Or the bodoh guy get upgraded, and become smarter.

hamizao

By Zam:

Thus seeing a problem, through current understanding, requires new explanation or perception, ie different level of thinking.

Ordinary people usually do not know how , say, geniuses like Einstein go about concieving their ideas and they do believe they have an element of madness! Even Einstein could not explain how but the ideas just simply came to him.

Even the great Einstein have made mistakes. Does that mean he was "bodoh" then ? He continued to make mistakes during his lifetime. So, I think it is incorrect to simply equate level of consciousness as being "bodoh" or "pandai" or levels of them. I think it is more of an issue of awareness.

Agul

People create bodoh or pandai because of judgement.
They need to be smarter or feel smarter than others because of the need to feel safe.

ZamZamAlaKazam

... I don't think this is about picking up other's mess or mistakes.  Rather this about what one does when he sees a problem.

The essence of change is always one of two things:

You are either going to do a different thing, or you're going to
do things differently.
Agul Post at 1-10-2009 14:07

When a caveman cut his foot on a sharp rock, he might take a different route - do things differently(constraint).  Other might take a sharp rock and start cutting meat - do different thing(opportunity).

We have the capacity to make changes.  Our capacity for good equalled if not far surpassed that for evil.  It's not about how smart you are, it's more about how conscious, or aware, your are of your surrounding, ie problems  and your persistence in finding answers / solution.  You could also have a talent and you believe in your talent to the extent that you change the current trend.  One could also have a great spiritual strength and could elevate to a higher consciousness level...

Our history is replete with such endeavor...just to list a few,
Siddartha Gautama saw sorrow and suffering, and decided he shall find a solution.
Thomas Edison wanted to light the world, and set about doing it diligently.
Elvis Presley didn't like what he saw & heard, and decided to do his own thing.
Prophet Muhammad didn't like his Mecca, and contemplated until he received revelation.

What we could do is rise above the accepted norms or understanding and effect changes.

pendakwa

1# hamizao

We have got versions on how Einstein quoted such word butwith similar definition.
From various versions of the definition of such statement, I would preferablymake a choice base on Dr. Covey explanation which spearhead towards thedefinition on Paradigm Shift.

It is more towards the understanding on what Paradigm shiftis, which is a basis and fundamental on how we look problems differently, fromour own lens, our own perspectives.
Tome personally, we have got to divide the section into 2 categories which is thedefinition on problems and the explanations on how we look at the problems.

Problem is a puzzle, a mystery, a situation that requiressolution and to be exact a gap that appear in between the plan vs. the actual. Irrespectiveon what our problems are, this is the simplest definition on what a problem is.Eventually effort that requires problems to be solved is one’s desire but theway problem is being handled or solved is through paradigm shift.

Paradigm is a theory or model of something else, an explanationabout something, the way we look at things. The term Shift means different,which is basically the process of solving which requires internal mind shiftingfrom various angles of looking at things. When we expect different results, wehave to look at the solution differently, when we need to be loved, we have tolook at how we could have love differently, etc, etc. Doing the same thing willonly lead to evolution but doing things differently, with different kind ofparadigm will lead to revolution.

Finally, such quote offers such a huge change and we should benefitwhat change creates. Doing the same thing and expect different result isinsanity, we have to be different even though different isn’t always better,but better is always different.

Agul

Post Last Edit by ZamZamAlaKazam at 3-10-2009 10:29

... I don't think this is about picking up other's mess or mistakes.  Rather this about what one does when he sees a problem.




ZamZamAlaKazam Post at 3-10-2009 09:34

Yes. That's the original meaning.

hamizao

People create bodoh or pandai because of judgement.
They need to be smarter or feel smarter than others because of the need to feel safe.
Agul Post at 2-10-2009 08:31

Hmmm.....

I am inclined to say that being "pandai" is more of a situation when given certain experience/exposure or knowledge, no matter how little, one is able to skilfully use  it in a resourceful manner to arrive at a sensible result.....yang paling senangnyalah.

Agul

Hmmm.....

I am inclined to say that being "pandai" is more of a situation when given certain experience/exposure or knowledge, no matter how little, one is able to skilfully use  it in a resour ...
hamizao Post at 3-10-2009 23:48

that's practically.

but there is also the case where we want to judge whether the person are ok or not. or the situation are ok or not. so we label it as smart, or stupid. This time, we just label.

hamizao

15# pendakwa

Yes, I do agree that perception plays a huge role here.

Say, an abusive person would find his action normal as he had grown up in an abusive household. His consciousness remains at the same level....that's why the problem of abuse is not resolved. He perceives that being abusive is normal. He is now treating his wife much the same way as how his dad treated his mum. Until he gets out of this state of consciousness, he may never be able to change his behaviour and perception.

I am aware there are many ways of explaining consciousness. If I may mention Dr D Hawkings', there is a hierarchy of level of consciousness which, basically, are levels of feelings that inevitably affect muscles of the body in various manner which can be measured.....Consciousness Calibrations... ranging from 1 to 1000. At the lower range he defines it as shame then guilt, apathy, grief, fear, desire........courage,.... reason , love and so on up to enlightenment. He says people may pop in and out of any level at different time. I reckon this is one way of explaining what Einstein means. It is said that Einstein's reading is 499, pretty much the same as Newton and Freud. No level is better or worst than the other. They are just representating experience of reality.

Agul

Regarding the Dr Hawkins level of conciousness hierarchy, it bears some resemblance(not totally) with Lester Levenson's (the originator of release technique or the sedona method).

There are stories about the relation between the two, if I recall correctly.