Contradictions in the bible

2. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
          Rom 1:20
         God's attributes cannot be discovered
          Job 11:7/ Is 40:28

     23. There is but one God
          Deut 6:4
         There is a plurality of gods
          Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7

     24. Robbery commanded
          Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
         Robbery forbidden
          Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15

[b]25. Lying approved and sanctioned
          Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
         Lying forbidden
          Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8

     26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned
          2 Kings 14:7,3
         Hatred to the Edomite forbidden
          Deut 23:7

     27. Killing commanded
          Ex 32:27
         Killing forbidden
          Ex 20:13[b]

Quote: "WinterN, i see that you are new to my threads. I have read 7 of the popular  versions of the bibles (New International Version, New American Standard Version, New King James Version, Revised Standard Version, New Revised Standard Version, The Living Bible and the New Century Version)"

Gray,

Firstly, 'reading' sometimes can be quantified as being subjective. How about if I had told you I have read the Koran and found it to be riddled with so many contradictions?

Secondly, even after you said having read most versions of the Bible I am surprised that you do not see the simple meaning pointed out in one of the alleged contradictions about the acceptance of human sacrifices. If you had read the chapters and read the verses subsequent to it carefully...you could see for yourself that it is stated plainly that God does not accept sacrifices.

The conclusion the person(or you) drew from the said verses alone indicates the lack of proper analysis.

The reason why I'm lazy to reply all these alleged contradictions are simply because of the reason that they are not contradictions. The existence of such 'contradictions' is the result of one's inability to read the text as a whole.

Another thing in another thread of yours, the argument is against the usage of language. English by itself evolved as you can note from the Shakespeare literature to modern usage of words and terminology. I'm aware that Islamic scholars take advantage of this evolution by saying that by subsribing to newer phrases of words distorts the teaching presented in the Bible. However, as I've mentioned, ancient manuscripts of biblical texts are available for scrutiny and cross-references.

Hey Gray ,

i haven't entertain your many questions about discrepancies and ridicule because ,simply, the Quran itself is just as outlandish and too many flaws..

if you can answer this one question of many, then  we 'll all postrate in front of you.
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The Quran says, in Sura 23:14 and Sura 37:125 that Allah is "the Best of Creators," as we read in The Believers Sura 23:14, "Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators!"

Those Who Set the Ranks, Drawn Up in Ranks Sura 37:125, "Will ye cry unto Baal and forsake the Best of creators?"

THE BEST of the best... how many creators are there? a team?

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Winternights, the bible was never originally written in the English language, it's not until in the 17th century that the bible was translated by the order of of King James. Before , the bible was written in Greek and at that time the bible was only available to monks, priests and it is chained to the walls of the church by the order of the Roman Christian church.

By your own words, the english language evolves. What about the early bibles that was written in Greek for more than 1600 years (from Genesis to Revelation)? During that time, surely the greek language too evolves and does all the monks and priests  in between that period reads Greek???

If monks and priests can't refer to the bibles because of being iliterate to Greek, how could they spread the teachings of God? And when finally King James ordered for the translations of the bible, how accurate were they in their translation in translating ancient Greek languages.

I studied both the bible and Quran because i want to find the truth, then only i believe that would i found the true religion and that is Islam. The Quran was transcended in Arabic and shall stay that way till the end of time, hence it will forever be kept away from corruption. insya allah

Words and wisdoms of god can't be taken lightly and when verses are made to change, added and removed by man, what is there left? God made several warnings  of not to change and manipulate his words.

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion

Are you sure the English version of bibles still contains the original words of the Torah and Gospel (i don't trust Paul's and the apostles letters)?

And now to whitepig, i understand you once told me that you are not a christian but leaning towards it.

I advice you to learn more of the religion that you are leaning towards to very carefully and lets not meddle into affairs that you don't know about.

Your question to me -

The Quran says, in Sura 23:14 and Sura 37:125 that Allah is "the Best of Creators," as we read in The Believers Sura 23:14, "Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators!"

Those Who Set the Ranks, Drawn Up in Ranks Sura 37:125, "Will ye cry unto Baal and forsake the Best of creators?"

THE BEST of the best... how many creators are there? a team?


This question was raised in the answering-islam website tirelessly because trinity believers does not have any other grounds to question of the Qur'an and in an effort to make them feel secured of their 3 in 1 concept of God they emphasize on the word 'we'.

If you take the word 'we' directly, in english it could range from 2 to infinity. It's a metaphor. The answering-islam site is pitiful so come up with your own debates, and don't for a second think that it has anything to do with trinity because in Islam the Holy Ghost is the chief of Angels Gabriel who was often sent to assist the prophets.

For example - He revealed to Adam the twenty-one leaves; taught him the cultivation of wheat, the working of iron ans so on. To Noah, he showed how to build the Ark. He saved Ibrahim from the flame. It is also Gabriel who helped Moses to fight against the magicians of Egypt. He was also instrumental in the destruction of Pharao's army in the Red Sea. He appeared to Samuel and Daud to whom he taught the art of making coats-of-mail. So does he assists Jesus and Muhammad.

I'll answer this question of yours this time, but unless you keep your questions original and not from the answering-islam website, i would not bother with yours any longer.

Your questions -

The Quran says, in Sura 23:14 and Sura 37:125 that Allah is "the Best of Creators

My reply -

As-saaffat 37:125

"Will ye call upon Baal and forsake the Best of Creators,-

Mumenoon 23:14

Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators!

'Creators' mentioned in those versus clearly states that Allah is without any reasonable doubt is the best creator and no other beings, be it the angels or human beings will never ever be be able to create anthing better than Allah.

Humans are known to create things when civilisations evolves through time and we have these we call materials nowadays, if god does not gives us brains we'll surely will still be living in caves and eating raw meats.

Your question -

"Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation.

My reply -

This verse is indeed very interesting because it is one of the many 'eye opener' versus because it even makes the scientists raises their eyebrows.

Read this article :

Dr. Keith Moore of the University of Toronto was amazed to find that many modern discoveries in the field of embryology must have been known to the author of the Qur'an, for these facts are either hinted at or stated explicitly in the Qur'an. This is particularly significant because the Qur'an claims to be the verbatim word of God. How could these facts have been known to any human being living in the 7th century? The presence of these in the Qur'an is proof enough that the Qur'an did not come from the mind of any human but must have been revealed from God whose knowledge is perfect and who therefore, knew what scientists will discover in the 20th century.

Dr. Moore is not the only scientist to have discussed the Qur'anic verses we will look at in this article. But the fact that he is not a Muslim puts what he has to say in a different light. No one can accuse him of inventing things to defend Islam. His findings will have to be taken seriously by any seeker of truth. In what follows we shall draw from his article entitled "Highlights of Human Embryology in the Koran and the Hadith" which was presented at the Seventh Saudi Medical Meeting at King Faisal University on May 3-6, 1982. At the time, Dr. Moore was Professor of Anatomy and Chairman of the Department, Faculty of Medicine, at the University of Toronto

In tracing the history of ideas in the field of embryology, Dr. Moore observed that the absence of knowledge in this field and the "dominating influence of superstition resulted in a non-scientific approach to human development." He noted, for instance, that while Aristotle made some contributions to the study of embryology, he also promoted "the incorrect idea that the human embryo developed from a formless mass that resulted from the union of semen with menstrual blood."

Knowledge in this field could not progress significantly until the microscope was discovered in the 17th century. "After it was possible to examine cells under the microscope, it was reasoned in the 18th century that development resulted from growth and differentiation of embryonic cells."

In view of the above, after Dr. Moore had the opportunity to study certain statements in the Qur'an and statements of the Prophet (on whom be peace) in the Hadith literature, he remarked, "I was amazed at the scientific accuracy of these statements which were made in the 7th century A.D."

"The staging of human embryos was not proposed until the 1940's, and the stages used nowadays were not adopted worldwide until a few years ago."

It is reasonable to interpret the three veils of darkness mentioned in the Koran as:

    * the mother's abdominal wall;
    * the wall of the uterus; and
    * the amniochorionic membrane composed of the fused amnion and chorion.

These three anatomical layers protect the embryo from external injury."

The whole process, Al-qur-an 23:12-16

And certainly We created man of an extract of clay, Then We made him a small seed in a firm resting-place, Then We made the seed a clot, then We made the clot a lump of flesh, then We made (in) the lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, then We caused it to grow into another creation, so blessed be Allah, the best of the creators. Then after that you will most surely die. Then surely on the day of resurrection you shall be raised.

Referring to the above verses in the Qur'an, Dr. Keith Moore says:

"This verse from the Koran states that God made you from a drop and then changed the drop into a leech-like structure which soon changed into a chewed like substance that then took the shape of bone and was clothed with flesh."

To illustrate his point about the accuracy of the Qur'an, Dr. Moore lined up a picture of a leech and a picture of a human embryo at 24 days old to show the striking similarity between the two. Similarly, he compared the human embryo at 28 days with a plasticine model of the embryo with teeth marks deliberately impressed on it and found the two to be quite Similar.

There are more versus which tells us the whole process from the  process of semens till the baby is borned told in the Qur-an. Now how on earth would a 1424 year old verse would describe the very details of embriology if it's not from the true words of our creator Allah.

[ Last edited by Gray on 5-12-2003 at 01:16 AM ]

28. The blood-shedder must die
          Gen 9:5,6
         The blood-shedder must not die
          Gen 4:15

     29. The making of images forbidden
           Ex 20:4
         The making of images commanded
          Ex 25:18,20

     30. Slavery and oppression ordained
          Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
         Slavery and oppression forbidden
          Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10

Originally posted by azrie87 at 27-11-2003 05:01 PM:
assalamualaikum.
janganlah beralih arah. itu antara kamu dengan dialah...anyway, saya tak faham mengenai pertanyaan anda. maklumlah, saya ni bukannya pandai sangat. kita berbicara mengenai AGAMA ( ...

walaikum salam waramatullah wabarakatuh....................

Sahabana wataalla sabuhana polunggata....................


azrie......kau tak pandai baca ke....huruf rumi bahasa melayu!!!!!!

kalau tak pandai baca........sahlah...buta huruf macam muhammad.

kau pandai mengaji koran ke?..... kau faham ke apa yang kau baca.....

Kenapa muhamad tidak terjemah itu al quran dalam bahasa lain........supaya orang dunia tahu isi kandungannya.

Masih kekal bahasa arab......tahule muhamad buta hurup....

Kalau kau pandai baca bible.......bacalah.......apsal banyak soalan....

Teruk betul lah bangsa jahilliah ni......masih kuno @ zaman purba lagi.

Fuzzman

Originally posted by tobpinai at 2003-12-5 12:38 PM:
walaikum salam waramatullah wabarakatuh....................

Sahabana wataalla sabuhana polunggata....................


azrie......kau tak pandai baca ke....huruf rumi bahasa melayu!!!!!!

...

Awat engko terror sangat ker?  Dengo-dengo cara engko macam SH Edy dalam nick lain ajer? Aper, engko buta tuli ker. Bible tu asal dalam bahasa aper? Bahasa Inggeris ker? Bahasa Greek ker? Bahasa Latin ker? Saper yang buta tuli? Agaknyer engkolah orengnyer! hahahahaha. Samdol bin Mamdul.

ARI FUZZMAN

Jadi kau ingat dalam bahasa arab?


quote diatas sanapun kau tak perasan.......

Bible ditulis dalam arab konon........Ibranilah bodoh.......

Bodoh punya Kerapu.......

Tak tahu sapa Shidee tu Fuzzman. tobpinai, cerita sikit Ibrani tu bangsa & bahasa apa dalam English? Kalau bukan Greek, then prove that i'm wrong.

Nak kata orang bodoh tapi reply cuma beberapa kerat tanpa facts pun tak nampak serupa reply orang yang cerdik. Kalau betul awak orang Islam, cuba act seperti seorang Islam dan jangan nak buat malu dengan keangkuhan yang boleh memalukan diri sendiri dengan saudara muslim yang lain.

31. Improvidence enjoyed
          Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3
         Improvidence condemned
          1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22

     32. Anger approved
          Eph 4:26
         Anger disapproved
          Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20

     33. Good works to be seen of men
          Matt 5:16
         Good works not to be seen of men
          Matt 6:1

Originally posted by Gray at 6-12-2003 02:27 AM:
Tak tahu sapa Shidee tu Fuzzman. tobpinai, cerita sikit Ibrani tu bangsa & bahasa apa dalam English? Kalau bukan Greek, then prove that i'm wrong.

Nak kata orang bodoh tapi reply cuma beberapa  ...

Engkau sendiri pun tidak perasan adakah saya ni islam atau bukan......

Dari mana kau tahu bible yang asli ditulis dalam bahasa arab......kau ingat orang yahudi tu semua berbahasa arab ke.....

gobuk betullah kau ni..

I have no time for people like you. Obviously you don't understand english as what i've written and said in this forum is obviously the reverse of what you've accused of me :re:. Bye bye pinai

34. Judging of others forbidden
          Matt 7:1,2
         Judging of others approved
          1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12

      35. Christ taught non-resistance
          Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
         Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
          Luke 22:36/ John 2:15

     36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
          Luke 12:4
         Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
          John 7:1

37. Public prayer sanctioned
          1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
         Public prayer disapproved
          Matt 5:5,6

     38. Importunity in prayer commended
          Luke 18:5,7
         Importunity in prayer condemned
          Matt 6:7,8

     39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned
          Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5
         The wearing of long hair by men condemned
          1 Cor 11:14

40. Circumcision instituted
          Gen 17:10
         Circumcision condemned
          Gal 5:2

     41. The Sabbath instituted
          Ex 20:8
         The Sabbath repudiated
          Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16

     42. The Sabbath instituted because God rested on the seventh day
          Ex 20:11
         The Sabbath instituted because God brought the Israelites   
         out of Egypt
          Deut 5:15

43. No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death
          Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36
         Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in
         the same
          John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5

     44. Baptism commanded
          Matt 28:19
         Baptism not commanded
          1 Cor 1:17,14

     45. Every kind of animal allowed for food.
          Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14
         Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.
          Deut 14:7,8

46. Taking of oaths sanctioned
          Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13
         Taking of oaths forbidden
          Matt 5:34

     47. Marriage approved
          Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4
         Marriage disapproved
          1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8

     48. Freedom of divorce permitted
          Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14
         Divorce restricted
          Matt 5:32

Gray let me answer your questions ONCE AND FOR ALL.

There are many variations in all the above verses - because no situation is the same AND Common sense should prevailed. In the old blblical times - slavery is not frowned upon. Maybe in a tiered society - master and slaves do hold some sort of social structure. (earthly beings are not a socialist or communist society - even in heaven there are ranked angels and so forth..)

common sense. An example: u holdfast to your rules of not eating pig BUT you diest chemical/anti-biotic/growth hormone infested beef which is halal. Do you think god would rather u eat pork?

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On verses which seems contradictory ... i think if i spend as much time as you trawling to websites - i would get as many contradictions from the Quran. I posted some in the past but i did not get any replies. It is almost impossible to reply to contradictions because not all of us are experts in the bible or quran. Many seem to be - but are they?

here was a chapter in 2Kings and Samuel which was written centuries apart but yet when you look at the bible - they are identical word for word verse for verse. I was stupified because not even the church pastor can offer any logical explanation. how can two diff chapters from 2 diff authors come out exactly the same. there must be some copycat somewhere.

If the bible is truly not corrupted Zondervan won't have bought the publishing rights of a certain 'brand' of bible for 14 million quids. How much money is Zondervan making now...? I supposed we are lucky we still have KJV.

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Moslem have too much pageantry and rules which they themselves can't observed. too much form and religiousness. a good example is: friday prayers downtown KL. On very congested major street - they park their motorbikes/cars..yes right on the road (when they can park 200/400 metres at nearby housing areas--) they have no regards for other people. Afterall, the other people can go get stuffed !

That's what i keep harping - people like fuzzman kennkid keeps saying "my religion is true and your's fake. BUT what are the fruits ?????
Everybody keeps saying their religion and their god is the bestest and truest !!

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The Greatest Commandment

I truly believe that all the world抯 woes could be solved by one little word