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Aku nak tanya pada muslim..

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Author: Truth.8       Show all posts   Read mode

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 Author| Post time 27-4-2014 07:08 PM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 27-4-2014 04:41 PM
Ha ha , you sure have a big ego. You have lost and lost badly.

Like I stated , only retards arg ...

ego my foot....u act like you know the quran but all the scholar who are born muslims aware that head covering is not part of God commandment. not only u are  retard but stupid

                                                      
The German Islam Scholar Lamya Kaddor

Why I as a Muslim Woman Don't Wear a Headscarf
Does the Koran really demand that women wear headscarves? Or is it mainly older men who claim they can decide how women should dress C with no theological foundation whatsoever? For the Islam scholar Lamya Kaddor, there is no question about it: the headscarf is obsolete


​If I as a Muslim woman living in Germany ask myself whether I should wear a headscarf or not, that gives rise to the question of whether the additional head-covering called for in the Koran (33:59) still fulfils its original purpose of protecting women from male desire. My answer is: no. In contemporary Germany such covering-up no longer serves that purpose. It is even more likely to bring about the opposite of what God intended by exposing wearers of headscarves to discrimination.
Today the intended protection against 'annoyances' is provided by a well-functioning legal system rather than by adherence to social rules from the past. A free state based on the rule of law protects a woman, for example by punishing attacks on her person. This protection may be primarily concerned with bodily integrity, but people in a modern state are more than ever responsible for themselves with regard to the freedoms accorded C including in the realm of moral integrity. Covering my head cannot relieve me of that responsibility. I cannot hide myself behind a little piece of cloth. A free and democratic state grants rights and also imposes responsibilities. In such circumstances I can behave honourably with and without a veil or head-scarf C or not, as the case may be.
A 'fashion accessory' from Koranic times?
If this argument is accepted, one can also abandon the Koranic demand for additional covering, directed towards women in Early Arabic tribal society. What would still initially remain is the khimâr, the head covering that was part of women's clothing at that time. The Koran neither speaks against nor in any way emphasises that form of covering. God uses the word only once in the Koran (24:31). That occurs in passing in connection with a call for moral behaviour. So there is no Koranic emphasis on such head covering. However, if God had required a special head covering, would He not have said so explicitly? The khimâr thus merely constitutes a 'fashion accessory' according to the spirit of that age. Viewed rationally, functions consciously or unconsciously associated with head coverings across the course of history C such as protection against sand or evil influences C are all superannuated today and have lost their validity. People's powers of imagination have changed.


"Sura 24:30-31 calls on both men and women to behave chastely, but exegesis of the Koran up to the present day only puts the emphasis on chaste behaviour for women," Kaddor writes



​​
In the Germany of the twenty-first century C at the very latest C women's hairstyles are no longer per se an erotic stimulus. The sight of head-hair no longer provokes sexual fantasies and thus immoral behaviour C except perhaps among fetishists. When you walk along a city's pedestrian precincts no one turns to look at you because of your hair. Only if you dress provocatively or in a particularly original way, and behave accordingly, do you attract some attention. In addition, this isn't a male world that still thinks as it did a thousand or more years ago. Thanks to the achievements of a free and democratic state, and thanks to the prevalent understanding of relations between the sexes, you no longer necessarily need a head covering in order to live morally. The headscarf has become obsolete.
Misogyny by Islamic scholars
Today's orthodox comprehension of the obligation to wear a head covering is primarily based on the interpretations of scholars who lived several generations after the Prophet Mohammed. One can follow their judgements but they are not sacrosanct. As human beings all scholars are fallible. Conservative and fundamentalist circles constantly emphasise that our behaviour should follow the Koran and the Prophet. Their spokesmen maintain that this directly accords with what was laid down during the Prophet's lifetime and the initial period of Islam.


The depiction of the headscarf as a unifying element within the Muslim community is not well founded, Kaddor argues
















Last edited by Truth.8 on 27-4-2014 07:11 PM

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 Author| Post time 27-4-2014 07:09 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 27-4-2014 07:08 PM
ego my foot....u act like you know the quran but all the scholar who are born muslims aware that h ...

​​
However in reality this view is mainly based on the ideas of scholars who lived some 600 (!) years later C such people as Ibn Qudâma (d. 1223), Ibn Taymîya (d. 1328), or the latter's pupil Ibn Qayyim al-Jawzîya (d. 1350). Bearing in mind the patriarchal social structures of that time, it is unsurprising that interpretations of sources concerning relations between the sexes were usually unfavourable for women C even though that contradicts a striving (to be found throughout the Koran) towards improving women's situation. That tendency is even less surprising if one recalls the misogyny demonstrated by many scholars throughout the history of Islam. Linking shame and a head covering is by no means as self-evident as it seems. Sura 24:30-31 calls on both men and women to behave chastely, but exegesis of the Koran up to the present day only puts the emphasis on chaste behaviour for women.
No political symbol
Nevertheless, the Koranic injunction to dress in a way that is generally demure remains a religious demand, to be fulfilled by wearing 'appropriate' clothing. A woman believer sees this as signifying that all those parts of the female body which nowadays excite the idea of possible sexual contact should continue to be 'properly' concealed beneath the kind of clothing usual today. What is entailed in 'proper', 'appropriate', or 'decent' is left to the reasonableness of every mature woman citizen, since at present there are no specific directives based on Islamic sources. In prevalent practice, it is mostly older men C learned or unlearned C who assume the right to determine how a woman should appear, but there is no theological or sociological foundation for this.
A similar situation prevails regarding evaluation of the headscarf as a token of Islamic faith. Such a function cannot be demonstrated in the history of Islam. The depiction of the headscarf as a unifying element within the Muslim community is not well founded either. In addition, its function as a political symbol, so frequently evoked in public discussions today, also constitutes a historically unfounded inflation of the significance of this item of clothing. This has occurred only in recent decades, as an element in the opposition to Western influences within the Islamic world.
Lamya Kaddor © Goethe-Institut 2011
Lamya Kaddor was born in 1978 in Ahlen, Westphalia, as the daughter of Syrian immigrants. As a student she specialised in Islamic Studies, and went on to train Islamic teachers of religion at Mnster University. Since the 2003-04 school year she has been involved as a teacher in the 'Islamic Studies in the German Language' project. Her most recent book is "Muslimisch C weiblich C deutsch! Mein Leben fr einen zeitgemäßen Islam" (Muslim C Female C German! My Life for an Islam in Keeping with the Times), C.H. Beck Verlag, Munich 2010. This text is an abbreviated version of a study published in Thorsten Gerald Schneider's Islamverherrlichung [Glorification of Islam], VS Verlag, Wiesbaden 2010, pp. 131C158.
Editor: Lewis Gropp/Qantara.de
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                  Comments for this article: Why I as a Muslim Woman Don't Wear a Headscarf   
                            the head scarf debatecan i make a simple request can i ask the german islamic scholar to wear the head dress for a year  as an social experiment  let us then annylise the difference it has made in her life  the difference it makes in her behaviour & the behavoiour of her fellow beings who r around her in their nomal cource of life
the statements she has madeabout head scarf becoming an obscelete acessory  i want her to prove it  she cant just make a commit like that & forget it
she being an  islamic schjolar ( which i am not) i cant argue with her on the islamic dictate about purdah she knows it better then me
if she has spend all her life till date with our head scarf  why not give it a try & c the difference t makes in her life her self
but at the end of it she has to be honest not to us but to herself
Abdul Rauf  Trumboo15.04.2011 | 08:54 Uhr
  
          Why as a Muslim woman I dont wear a scarfAs 14 centuries past the Koranic revelation Muslim scholarship continues to debate the issue of hijab C whether or not a Muslim woman should cover the head or the face, it is time that it takes cognizance of the fact that he Koran has no specific instruction for women to wearing any external head to toe veil (burqa), face veil (niqab), covering of head, or for gender-based segregation. The writer had stated this in a summary report sent earlier [1] drawn on the textual analysis of relevant Koranic verses appearing in a recent publication [2]. This briefing explores the historical background to the issue, as reported in the referenced publication.
Until the advent of Islam, practically all the major civilizations subjected women to various forms of restrictions. The Zoroastrians (Persians) kept their women in confinement, guarded by eunuchs. The Greek followed their example and kept their women in gynaecium, often under lock and key. The Hindus burnt their widows alive on funeral pyres of their husbands bodies - a practice continued until recent centuries. The Chinese bound their womens feet in iron shoes as a cultural norm, obviously, to restrict their movement. The Christian Church placed women under total domination of men. (The Bible, Genesis 3.16). Roman male citizens could kill their women by law, if they found them committing adultery (Thanks to the Justinian Code).
Therefore all the Christians (including the Romans and Greeks), Zoroastrians, pagans and Hindus who embraced Islam brought misogynist notions into Islam from their previous religions. This inevitably influenced their interpretation of Koranic exhortations on modesty. With time, this gave rise to imposition of varying restrictions upon women, including their full veiling and segregation when outside the house C a custom borrowed understandably from the Greek Christians of Byzentium, who had long veiled and segregated their women in this manner.[3]
The truth is the Koran features altogether five verses relating to sartorial modesty and sexual morality: 7:26 declares that clothing is meant for concealing nakedness as well as for personal beauty but reminds that the cloak of conscience is the best. 24:30 calls upon men to restrain their glances and cover their sexual parts. 24:31 has identical instruction for women (as in 24:30), but allows them some latitude to enable suckling of their babies in the presence of close male relatives and restrains them from wearing or bearing themselves provocatively. 24:60 relents towards the elderly and senile women, because of the lack of their sexual appeal. Finally, 33:59 restates sartorial modesty, but forbids women from hiding their identity under the veil. This is another matter that the traditional gendered reading obscures the identity and enhances the sexuality of women by insisting on veil, head gear, segregation etc. In a word, in todays context/debate, veil and head-covers are fake symbols of Islamic as the true identity of a Muslim lies in his/her inner beauty: conduct, behaviour and performance and not in veil and head-cover.   
Mohammed Yunus              
1.        www.qantara.de/webcom/show_article.php/_c-478/_nr-967/i.html
2.        Essential Message of Islam, by Muhammad Yunus and Ashfaque Ullah Syed, Amana Publications, Maryland 2009.
3.        Karen Armstrong, Islam, A short history, New York 2002, p. 16
mohammed yunus16.04.2011 | 23:38 Uhr
  
          Reply to your false propagandahttp://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_151_200/islamic_concept_of_veil.htm
This is the reply to the above piece
Self proclaimed scholars like Lamya do no service but create confusions. Islam is the religion that liberates women. In fact, Islam was the first religion that talked and put into practice the equality of women. But unlike the Orientalists, we don't sell our mothers and sisters. Rape cases and prostitution centers are not our giving to the world. Hijab liberates women.
Hakim iqbal Abdulla17.04.2011 | 19:05 Uhr
  
          "Scholars"It's not as if you can't reject the clearly false opinion of a person because the call themselves "A scholar". The Quran commands us to obey the Prophet(PBUH). You, therefore, have no right to obey anyone when it involved disobedience to Allah.
3:32
Sahih International
Say, "Obey Allah and the Messenger." But if they turn away - then indeed, Allah does not like the disbelievers.
No need to say ...05.07.2011 | 18:23 Uhr
  
          Self proclaimed scholarsI am sorry, but this woman doesn't know what she is talking about. If she said she doesn't want to wear headscarf or it shouldn't be forced on the woman or society shouldn't judge a women for putting it on I will agree with her. But to say since it is not mentioned in Quran then it is simply an older men misogyny for women or a 'fashion accessory' from Koranic times, this is a nonsense talk and I don't know how she called herself a Muslim scholar.
What this lady missed that Faraeid and feqh al hadeeth for haram and halal based on Quran 'AND" Al Suna from prophet Mohammed SAAW. One of the main pillars in Islam is praying five times in a day. Did Quran say anything about how to pray or how many times we pray? No, but we learned that from prophet's teaching. And since she only based her argument on Quran, did she ignore the Ayah (O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end. (59)) Al Nessa. Or the hadeeth ("Ayesha (r) reported that Asma the daughter of Abu Bakr (r) came to the Messenger of Allah (s) while wearing thin clothing. He approached her and said: 'O Asma! When a girl reaches the menstrual age, it is not proper that anything should remain exposed except this and this. He pointed to the face and hands." [Abu Dawud]). Women and men's costume were declared many times in Quran and hadeeth but I guess for some people it is a matter of pick and choose.
This is a deep science and not everybody can simply go in public and make halal or haram and mislead people because he/she read some versos from Quran. And again, I am against forcing any woman to put it on or judging her if she wears it or not, but I refuse making false claims about the religion and mislead people. If a Muslim doesn't want to pray or
Murad Kablan13.04.2012 | 00:42 Uhr
  
          Self proclaimed scholar con'tor fast in Ramadan this is his/her choice, be he/she can't say it is ok in the religion to do so or it not mentioned in Quran so we can ignore it.
Self proclaimed scholars like Lamya do no service but create confusions. Islam is the religion that liberates women. In fact, Islam was the first religion that talked and put into practice the equality of women. I recommend any woman or man to read the book ( Liberating the woman in the message's era by Dr. Abdul halim Abou Shoqa) or to watch Dr. Tareq Swydan episod in youtube titeld (Hijab is it 3ebada or3ada ?)
Murad Kablan13.04.2012 | 00:44 Uhr
  
          hijabthe word "khimar" is  there and since quran was meant for all times and not just for that particular period,it is definetly valid in the 21st century too.i feel she misses the beauty of the exact precision of the words used in quran.
sania mariam25.04.2012 | 23:28 Uhr
  
          FreedomI do respect your opinion but it doesn't make you right or wrong. However, I do disagree with the entire article especially the term "Koranic times". I don't really know how you came up with this terms as long as I know that Koran is Koran and Islam is Islam and you can't change it to whatever you desire. With respect to the Church, same-sex marriage was prohibited years ago but then the church found itself being hated by people who do support this case then it allowed it in an organized manner. The church wanted to keep its role and love by allowing that already prohibited act, and that's wrong. After a few years, a new weird thing/case and the church will refuse it then it will be forced to approve it.
I don't want that for Islam.
I respect the freedom of expression but when it's logical and based on facts and well-known knowledge. Therefore, you can do whatever you want but that doesn't give you the right to form your opinion as the correct way. What I know is that Quran asking woman to cover their head, now, could you please bring me a text from the Quran or from Sunnah that doesn't say that?
Muhammad  Badi09.07.2012 | 20:16 Uhr
  
          Agree, but...Of course, I can only agree with her that the concept of a universally compulsory headscarf was spun by scholars, who themselves are a product of their time and place. She may have added a note on the definition of the word "khimar", which people now choose to interpret in a way that agrees with their idea of what women should do.
Unfortunately, her argument that for her personally, as a Muslim living in Germany (where the sight of hair does not provoke men's fantasies) the headscarf is obsolete, only forces us to conclude that in places where it does cause such provocation, it remains necessary. It may be a fact, sadly, but does that mean that certain sick fantasies will forever be allowed to determine the fate of certain societies?
Nesrin A.10.07.2012 | 10:54 Uhr
  
          head scarfYou call youself a scholar...why reject the ahaadeeth and only use quraan??obviously hijaab and niqaab are nessasary articles of clothing for a muslim for a true believing muslim woman..if you disagree that's your choice but do not falsely claim that hijaab is not from islam and quraan...nabi saw was sent as a messenger for ALL times..so all laws in the wisdom of Allaah were made for ALL times..they cannot be changed simply because you feel its for previous times only.do you not know the hadeeth stating that a group of angels praise Allaah in the words "Glory be to the one who has beautifies women with long plaits of hair glory be to the one who has beautified men with beards" this proves that the Hair of a woman is an integeral part of her beauty and should be coverd.Hijaab is liberating..try it and see!!!
amatullah bint ...11.07.2012 | 17:48 Uhr
  

link :  http://en.qantara.de/content/the ... nt-wear-a-headscarf

   




Last edited by Truth.8 on 27-4-2014 07:17 PM

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Post time 28-4-2014 12:32 AM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 27-4-2014 07:09 PM
​​
ego my foot....u act like you know the quran but all the scholar who are born muslims aware that head covering is not part of God commandment. not only u are  retard but stupid

Ha ha ... ha ha , you are confirming everything I stated. Only people who are retards coupled with an ego plus who can't even read english appeal to such article.

Lets look at her credentials (from your link)
Lamya Kaddor © Goethe-Institut 2011

Lamya Kaddor was born in 1978 in Ahlen, Westphalia, as the daughter of Syrian immigrants. As a student she specialised in Islamic Studies, and went on to train Islamic teachers of religion at Mnster University. Since the 2003-04 school year she has been involved as a teacher in the 'Islamic Studies in the German Language' project. Her most recent book is "Muslimisch C weiblich C deutsch! Mein Leben fr einen zeitgemäßen Islam" (Muslim C Female C German! My Life for an Islam in Keeping with the Times), C.H. Beck Verlag, Munich 2010. This text is an abbreviated version of a study published in Thorsten Gerald Schneider's Islamverherrlichung [Glorification of Islam], VS Verlag, Wiesbaden 2010, pp. 131C158

She teaches in Gothe Institute which is a learning institute for German Language and culture. At most she only has a 'bachelor' degree along with a couple of thousands in the Islamic world.

When did she became a scholar of Islam like Dr Yusuf Qaradawi?

From you own link again , comment 13.04.2012 | 00:42 Uhr
I am sorry, but this woman doesn't know what she is talking about. If she said she doesn't want to wear headscarf or it shouldn't be forced on the woman or society shouldn't judge a women for putting it on I will agree with her. But to say since it is not mentioned in Quran then it is simply an older men misogyny for women or a 'fashion accessory' from Koranic times, this is a nonsense talk and I don't know how she called herself a Muslim scholar......

comment 25.04.2012 | 23:28 Uhr
the word "khimar" is there and since quran was meant for all times and not just for that particular period,it is definetly valid in the 21st century too.i feel she misses the beauty of the exact precision of the words used in quran.

Again , you are not a careful person. Thsi lady is just a teacher not a scholar. Do you know what is a scholar? Apparently you don't. No wonder you are making one blunder after another.

Per your post #112
(1) How do you come to the understanding that us muslims understand hijab = head cover? Nobody stated so
(2) Look at your post #101 , is there a bracket between the word 'head cover'? Yes or no?
(3) Where is the reference of the article that confirm 'khimar' is not head cover? There is no authoritative reference

Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean headcover?





Last edited by sam1528 on 28-4-2014 12:34 AM

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 Author| Post time 28-4-2014 09:13 AM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 28-4-2014 12:32 AM
Ha ha ... ha ha , you are confirming everything I stated. Only people who are retards coupled with ...

i m right about being retard....
she is born muslim  and arab is her mother language...

she have quoted according to quran verses because she is scholar

u study in pondok in kampung and trying to act like arab wannabe...
shame shame shame

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Post time 28-4-2014 09:44 AM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 28-4-2014 09:13 AM
i m right about being retard....
she is born muslim  and arab is her mother language...

she have quoted according to quran verses because she is scholar

u study in pondok in kampung and trying to act like arab wannabe...
shame shame shame

Ha ha , only retards argue that 'arab is her mother tongue' hence so and so is a scholar because the person quotes the Quran. This means that we have millions and millions of arabs by your logic are Quranic scholars because they speak arab. This is another case where your ego gets the better then your intelligence. Where did she do her Phd and then being accepted and did research in the said field? The answer is nowhere. It confirm that you don't even know what is a scholar.

The Quranic verse 24:31 states of khimar meaning head covering. She calls it fashion accessory. No reference is made to any authoritative source(s). Again her unlearned opinion.

Well going to pondok school and FINISHING it is better than you who failed form 3. What do you think?

Per your post #112
(1) How do you come to the understanding that us muslims understand hijab = head cover? Nobody stated so
(2) Look at your post #101 , is there a bracket between the word 'head cover'? Yes or no?
(3) Where is the reference of the article that confirm 'khimar' is not head cover? There is no authoritative reference

Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean headcover?
Last edited by sam1528 on 28-4-2014 09:45 AM

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 Author| Post time 28-4-2014 10:36 AM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 28-4-2014 09:44 AM
Ha ha , only retards argue that 'arab is her mother tongue' hence so and so is a scholar because t ...

here we go again with a retard person do not understand modesty dressing and head covering

let the forummer judge how stupid this retard person

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Post time 28-4-2014 12:48 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 28-4-2014 10:36 AM
here we go again with a retard person do not understand modesty dressing and head covering

let the forummer judge how stupid this retard person

Ha ha , I think the person without understanding is you. You know lah , arguing like a retard without any evidence.

The issue here is that you die die argue that the Quran does not state of head cover. You have been proven wrong in Quran24:31. All you have are just the unlearned opinion of lay people. All I ask is the reference from authoritative source(s) that support your argument. So far all you can provide are
- articles from polemicists with their unlearned opinion
- articles from Quaranists with their unlearned opinion
- article from a teacher not scholar who can speak arab and to you a scholar giving her unlearned opinion
- a lie that an Azhar University PhD candidate questioning head covering
- data from your ass that 70% of muslims do not suppport the hijab

In short you have nothing but argue for the sake of arguing because of your ego but then resorting to lying. However you are having such a thick skin but small in courage. You are afraid answer my questions

Per your post #112
(1) How do you come to the understanding that us muslims understand hijab = head cover? Nobody stated so
(2) Look at your post #101 , is there a bracket between the word 'head cover'? Yes or no?
(3) Where is the reference of the article that confirm 'khimar' is not head cover? There is no authoritative reference

Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean headcover?

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 Author| Post time 28-4-2014 03:09 PM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 28-4-2014 12:48 PM
Ha ha , I think the person without understanding is you. You know lah , arguing like a retard with ...

so, those against the head covering include sister in islam and few other scholar retard??
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Post time 28-4-2014 06:55 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 28-4-2014 03:09 PM
so, those against the head covering include sister in islam and few other scholar retard??{:1_550: ...

More that 9 times I am asking you :
When did 'sisters in Islam' became scholars? In your wet dreams?

I have asked you more than 15 times collectively :
Who are the other scholars? Issit it Lamya Kaddor who is just a teacher? Issit Gamel El Banna who is not a scholar? Issit the non existent PhD candidate Mustapha Mohamed Rashed (which I caught you lying)?

Ha ha , an example of another retard argument. 'Syok sendiri' ka?

Per your post #112
(1) How do you come to the understanding that us muslims understand hijab = head cover? Nobody stated so
(2) Look at your post #101 , is there a bracket between the word 'head cover'? Yes or no?
(3) Where is the reference of the article that confirm 'khimar' is not head cover? There is no authoritative reference

Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean headcover?

Why so scared to answer?

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 Author| Post time 30-4-2014 11:39 AM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 28-4-2014 06:55 PM
More that 9 times I am asking you :
When did 'sisters in Islam' became scholars? In your wet drea ...

taking about covering head.. RC covering head...,does  keeping to according scripturies?

watch how a head covering women who is nun and some muslims visiting unclean meats wet market

https://www.facebook.com/photo.p ... 7390&type=2&theater


if one keep God words, you never step foots to such places as the odors  and etc  will make you vomit...this how I felt  when i was walking in wet market than i come  acorss with pig slauthering...i feel so dirt  and vomit....i need to cover my nose ...
Last edited by Truth.8 on 30-4-2014 11:41 AM

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Post time 30-4-2014 06:05 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 30-4-2014 11:39 AM
taking about covering head.. RC covering head...,does  keeping to according scripturies?

watch  ...


Visiting unclean places is not keeping to God's words? Are you mentally unsound? If I'd known better , you are trying to change the subject. You argue that in the Quran there is no requirement for head covering by referring to laymen like 'sisters in Islam' , Gamel Al Banna , Lamya Kaddor and the non existent PhD candidate Mustapha Mohamed Rashed.

All I ask is for you to provide authoritative source(s) / evidence for your claim. Until now you have failed. Don't you think your position is wrong?

You need to remember RC is a denomination earlier than yours. RC nuns are keeping with what is in the bible about head covering. Until now you cannot dispute this.

Per your post #112
(1) How do you come to the understanding that us muslims understand hijab = head cover? Nobody stated so
(2) Look at your post #101 , is there a bracket between the word 'head cover'? Yes or no?
(3) Where is the reference of the article that confirm 'khimar' is not head cover? There is no authoritative reference

Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean headcover?

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 Author| Post time 30-4-2014 11:26 PM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 30-4-2014 06:05 PM
Visiting unclean places is not keeping to God's words? Are you mentally unsound? If I'd known be ...

me failed? or it is u. until now you have no idea why majority muslims says not necessary to cover head.
does it mean those reject head covering infidel?
You need to remember RC is a denomination earlier than yours. RC nuns are keeping with what is in the bible about head covering. Until now you cannot dispute this.

the bible made it clear the hair is covering not piece of cloth...i hve already posted but you behaving like moron here...
secondly , you must remember before came islam and christians, the idols  worshippers /or the pagan  covering the head...so what you peoples doing is just a copy paste of pagan traditional /or cultural....is not part of Bible teachings
Last edited by Truth.8 on 30-4-2014 11:33 PM

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Post time 1-5-2014 12:37 AM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 30-4-2014 11:26 PM
me failed? or it is u. until now you have no idea why majority muslims says not necessary to cover head.
does it mean those reject head covering infidel?

Again I ask , where do you get the data that 'majority' of muslims say it is not necessary for head cover? In your wet dreams or your ass? Why are you so fond of speculating? Are you mentally unsound?

Where does it say rejecting the headcovering means the person is an infidel? BTW , the word infidel originates from the Christians in the 15 century. 'Infidel' is the word that Christians use to describe muslims ~ 15 century - the Sacarens.
mid-15c. (adjective and noun), from Middle French infidle, from Latin infidelis "unfaithful, not to be trusted," later "unbelieving," from in- "not, opposite of" (see in- (1)) + fidelis "faithful" (see fidelity). In 15c. "a non-Christian" (especially a Saracen)
the bible made it clear the hair is covering not piece of cloth...i hve already posted but you behaving like moron here...
secondly , you must remember before came islam and christians, the idols  worshippers /or the pagan  covering the head...so what you peoples doing is just a copy paste of pagan traditional /or cultural....is not part of Bible teachings

I am challenging your copy paste. The bible makes it very clear that there is a head covering and also a veil (niqab). I thought I have provided the biblical verses. What you have are just copy paste articles , basically the opinion of layman. I posted the opinion of a Bible Scholar - Prof Geza Vermes.

See the difference - we muslims refer to scholars whereas christians like you refer to laymen because you are just seeking opinions that fits your world view. Are you scared that it shakes your already fragile faith?

Per your post #112
(1) How do you come to the understanding that us muslims understand hijab = head cover? Nobody stated so
(2) Look at your post #101 , is there a bracket between the word 'head cover'? Yes or no?
(3) Where is the reference of the article that confirm 'khimar' is not head cover? There is no authoritative reference

Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean headcover?
Last edited by sam1528 on 1-5-2014 12:39 AM

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 Author| Post time 2-5-2014 12:19 PM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 1-5-2014 12:37 AM
Again I ask , where do you get the data that 'majority' of muslims say it is not necessary for hea ...

The Bible did not  says head covering rather hair covering...simple as that and it alread explained in full details

you stuck and lost

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Post time 2-5-2014 12:33 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 2-5-2014 12:19 PM
The Bible did not  says head covering rather hair covering...simple as that and it alread explained in full details

you stuck and lost

1cor11:6
For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

The bible explicitly state of head covering. Are you trying to lie?

This goes back to my question for more than 8 times : How do you cover the head without covering the hair?

Per your post #112
(1) How do you come to the understanding that us muslims understand hijab = head cover? Nobody stated so
(2) Look at your post #101 , is there a bracket between the word 'head cover'? Yes or no?
(3) Where is the reference of the article that confirm 'khimar' is not head cover? There is no authoritative reference

Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean headcover?

Why so scared to answer?
Last edited by sam1528 on 2-5-2014 12:34 PM

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 Author| Post time 2-5-2014 02:09 PM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 2-5-2014 12:33 PM
1cor11:6

The bible explicitly state of head covering. Are you trying to lie?

let me  quote :
Corinthians 11:6 LEB                                        Lexham English Bible
                                        For if a woman does not cover herself, let her [hair] be shorn off. But if [it is] shameful for a woman to [have her head] shorn or shaved, let her cover her [head].





u understand what it mean if it bald or shave off? it mean  if shave of or botak...it better to cover which many doing that...shame that they are bald and covering it..

so simple yet you behave like dump stupid asxxxle

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Post time 2-5-2014 02:28 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 2-5-2014 02:09 PM
let me  quote :
Corinthians 11:6 LEB                                        Lexham English Bible
                                        For if a woman does not cover herself, let her [hair] be shorn off. But if [it is] shameful for a woman to [have her head] shorn or shaved, let her cover her [head].





u understand what it mean if it bald or shave off? it mean  if shave of or botak...it better to cover which many doing that...shame that they are bald and covering it..

so simple yet you behave like dump stupid asxxxle

Your argument comes from your inability to understand simple english.

The explanation of the verse per your post state if the woman does not cover her head , she is to be shaven bald. It does not in any way mean hair covering. It explicitly state of head covering (I have underlined , bolded and in green colour - the part for you). The question you should ask yourself - why in the verse should teh women be shaven bald? The answer is that she did not cover herself including head cover.

This is the problem with people like you. You have poor understanding but you stubbornly argue with no knowledge what so ever with your ego getting the better of you.

This goes back to my question for more than 9 times : How do you cover the head without covering the hair?

Per your post #112
(1) How do you come to the understanding that us muslims understand hijab = head cover? Nobody stated so
(2) Look at your post #101 , is there a bracket between the word 'head cover'? Yes or no?
(3) Where is the reference of the article that confirm 'khimar' is not head cover? There is no authoritative reference

Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean headcover?

Why so scared to answer?

Last edited by sam1528 on 2-5-2014 02:34 PM

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 Author| Post time 2-5-2014 03:13 PM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 2-5-2014 02:28 PM
Your argument comes from your inability to understand simple english.

The explanation of the ve ...

nope...u dont understand the Bibel well..it already clearly mentioned that one do not need to cover the hair...the Hair itself is a covering provided in  modesty look

very simple understanding and you  not  clever person at all....

no wonder many peoples suffer hair loss by covering it ...maybe it kind of cursed where humans do not apperciate it instead covering it with  cloth...

1) Paul instructs this ONLY when women are praying (presumably orally) or prophesying in *public*.

2) Paul allows for women to cut their hair or shave their head as alternatives to covering their head during public prayer.  How short the hair must be cut is NOT indicated by the passage.


This is why, traditionally, many Christian women wore hats to Christian religious services.  Now that women's hats have gone out of style, many Christian sects do not force the issue.  Notice especially verse 16
http://www.studybibleforum.com/htm_php.p...
in which Paul admits that this is the *custom* of the churches of the time.  When speaking of those "inclined to be contentious", Paul's answer was, "that's the only way it's done in other congregations".  In other words, Paul was making it clear that this was the common custom among Christians of the time, NOT a command from God.

I think v 16 is why most Christian sects allow hatless women to pray in church - because the covering of heads is no LONGER the custom of many Christian churches, then it need no longer be required in those churches.
Last edited by Truth.8 on 2-5-2014 03:20 PM

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Post time 2-5-2014 08:22 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 2-5-2014 03:13 PM
nope...u dont understand the Bibel well..it already clearly mentioned that one do not need to cover the hair...the Hair itself is a covering provided in  modesty look

very simple understanding and you  not  clever person at all....

no wonder many peoples suffer hair loss by covering it ...maybe it kind of cursed where humans do not apperciate it instead covering it with  cloth...

1) Paul instructs this ONLY when women are praying (presumably orally) or prophesying in *public*.

2) Paul allows for women to cut their hair or shave their head as alternatives to covering their head during public prayer.  How short the hair must be cut is NOT indicated by the passage.


This is why, traditionally, many Christian women wore hats to Christian religious services.  Now that women's hats have gone out of style, many Christian sects do not force the issue.  Notice especially verse 16
http://www.studybibleforum.com/htm_php.p...
in which Paul admits that this is the *custom* of the churches of the time.  When speaking of those "inclined to be contentious", Paul's answer was, "that's the only way it's done in other congregations".  In other words, Paul was making it clear that this was the common custom among Christians of the time, NOT a command from God.

I think v 16 is why most Christian sects allow hatless women to pray in church - because the covering of heads is no LONGER the custom of many Christian churches, then it need no longer be required in those churches.

Why are you repeating yourself on the issue of not covering the hair? We are talking about head covering not hair covering. 1 cor11:6 clearly state of head covering not hair covering. You have not answered my 2 questions -
(1) why in 1cor11:6 the woman should be shaven bald?
(2) more than 10 times : How do you cover the head without covering the hair?

Who says that the hair itself is for covering? 1cor11:15 states of long hair not hair. 1cor11:15
but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

John Gill commentary of 1cor11:15
for her hair is given her for a covering;
not instead of a covering for her head, or any other part of her body, so that she needs no other: we read indeed of the daughter of Nicodemus ben Gorion, that she was obliged to make use of her hair for a covering in such a sense.....

this covering was made use of, not of choice, but by force, through her poverty, she having no other; this was not the custom of the nation, nor was the hair given to women for a covering in this sense, nor used by them as such, unless by Eve before the fall; but is rather an indication that they want another covering for their head, it not being so decent that their long hair should be seen. The Jewish women used to esteem it an immodest thing for their hair to be seen, and therefore they took care, as much as possible, to hide it under another covering;

Knowing your poor comprehension , probably you don't understand what John Gill commentary state. I will help you. The background to this verse is the use of long hair (not hair) by the daughter of ben Gorion. She used her long hair to cover herself because in her poverty did not have any other covering. Meaning , if there is another covering for her head , it would have been used. Simply put , hair is to be covered.

Poof!! There goes your so called hair covering argument , up is smoke. Wait , there is more to come ....

In short you have nothing but just empty claims. Empty claims by you who is having serious comprehension problems. The point here is that are we not in worship of God all the time? To Christians like you , time for God is only when you pray? Then you have a problem.

What do you mean that in 1cor11:16 , Paul stated that head covering is just a custom? Per John Gill commentary of 1cor11:16
That is, if anyone will not be satisfied with reasons given, for men's praying and prophesying with their heads uncovered, and women's praying and prophesying with their heads covered; but will go on to raise objections, and continue carping and cavilling, showing that they contend not for truth, but victory, can they but obtain it any way; for my part, as if the apostle should say, I shall not think it worth my while to continue the dispute any longer;

Do you understand the explanation of 1cor11:16 (in english)? I don't think you do. It is describing you who is objecting head covering for women. This means that you don't care for the truth but just argue for the sake of objecting. Ha ha , too bad for you , your own bible refutes you.

I caught you again with your own bible and its commentary. You , a christian getting an explanation of your own bible from a muslim - embarrassing for you.

Per your post #112
(1) How do you come to the understanding that us muslims understand hijab = head cover? Nobody stated so
(2) Look at your post #101 , is there a bracket between the word 'head cover'? Yes or no?
(3) Where is the reference of the article that confirm 'khimar' is not head cover? There is no authoritative reference

Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean headcover?

Why so scared to answer?
Last edited by sam1528 on 2-5-2014 08:44 PM

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 Author| Post time 7-5-2014 09:05 PM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 2-5-2014 08:22 PM
Why are you repeating yourself on the issue of not covering the hair? We are talking about head co ...

hahahha sam you so stupid and repeating like parrot

here is the video for u:



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Post time 7-5-2014 10:50 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 7-5-2014 09:05 PM
hahahha sam you so stupid and repeating like parrot

here is the video for u:

Translation :
I , 'truth.8' have been trapped. I have no avenue to lie anymore

Per your post #112
(1) How do you come to the understanding that us muslims understand hijab = head cover? Nobody stated so
(2) Look at your post #101 , is there a bracket between the word 'head cover'? Yes or no?
(3) Where is the reference of the article that confirm 'khimar' is not head cover? There is no authoritative reference

Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean headcover?

Why so scared to answer?



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 Author| Post time 9-5-2014 11:05 PM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 7-5-2014 10:50 PM
Translation :

Per your post #112

r  u really stupid...do you know when you cover your hair  with cloth without air ventilation, it caused hair loss....

here is proof  
click here  : Arab, Asian women have worst hair loss

since you repeating ur writing all the times...here is the video again:



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Post time 10-5-2014 12:23 AM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 9-5-2014 11:05 PM
r  u really stupid...do you know when you cover your hair  with cloth without air ventilation, it caused hair loss....

here is proof  
click here  : Arab, Asian women have worst hair loss

since you repeating ur writing all the times...here is the video again:

If you have a problem understanding anything in english , don't let your ego get the better of you arguing for the sake of argument. Where in your copy paste state 'head covering' is the cause of hair loss? Your education is only up to form 3 which you failed and became a drop out. Why try to argue because of your ego and try to show off? Your education is limited and it is really evident. You are incapable to understand what you read. Are you not embarrassed that you have been caught not understanding what you read time and time again? Refer to your posted link :
The truth is probably more complicated, according to esteemed tricologist (hair specialist), Mike Ryan.

In fact, there is much evidence to support that malnutrition as the cause of many beauty problems widely reported in the survey such as splitting nails, dry hair and skin, pimples and acne, and weight-gain.  However, the survey indicated that of the surveyed women experiencing hair loss, just 16 per cent have ever-sought advice concerning the condition from a nutritionist

Consider hair loss for example, the survey finds that two out of three women regardless of nationality and age were concerned about hair- fall, with expat Arab women particularly concerned. Inadequate protein and iron in a diet is a well-known cause of hair-loss in women

I know you have very poor communication ability. After simplifying the above , what is the cause of hair loss per your copy paste?
(a) head covering
(b) lack of nutrition
(c) don't know because I don't understand what I read

Can you choose (a) , (b) or (c)? Aiyoyo tambi , you better go back to school.

Per your post #112
(1) How do you come to the understanding that us muslims understand hijab = head cover? Nobody stated so
(2) Look at your post #101 , is there a bracket between the word 'head cover'? Yes or no?
(3) Where is the reference of the article that confirm 'khimar' is not head cover? There is no authoritative reference

Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean headcover?

Why so scared to answer?
Last edited by sam1528 on 10-5-2014 12:31 AM

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 Author| Post time 16-5-2014 10:52 AM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 10-5-2014 12:23 AM
If you have a problem understanding anything in english , don't let your ego get the better of you ...

sam this for you :

Truth.8:   What is your name?

Sam  : I like nasi lemak...

that how your brain shape up

again this for you:



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Post time 16-5-2014 11:10 AM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 16-5-2014 10:52 AM
sam this for you :

Truth.8:   What is your name?

Sam  : I like nasi lemak...

that how your brain shape up

again this for you:

You are describing yourself because of your horrible comprehension.

You can countercheck with your post #195 , nowhere it states that head covering cause hair loss

Per your post #112
(1) How do you come to the understanding that us muslims understand hijab = head cover? Nobody stated so
(2) Look at your post #101 , is there a bracket between the word 'head cover'? Yes or no?
(3) Where is the reference of the article that confirm 'khimar' is not head cover? There is no authoritative reference

Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean headcover?

Why so scared to answer?
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