Sister In Islam (merged: strike_freedom, ct_og, Karisma)

antiQue

Hmm.. this is actually happened because of the differences in interpreting An-Nur 31. No doubt there抯 nothing about 揷over your hair

Originally posted by amorist at 19-8-2003 08:38 AM:
Which words of God did he over rule? Can you please show the verses? I would expect the verses to say that women need not cover their hair and that arak is not haram. If Hanafi were to over rule th ...

Salam Anorist.


I am not going to answer your questions amorist, (except one). I have a feeling you and me will get into "looping". Looking at the nature of your  questions, I see no point, at all.  This is not our 1st time getting into the very same topic, I have no intention to go around in circle again. I have said what I have to say. No point repeating it.

However I would like to explain the reasons why I am so hung up with the word "hair" in the 24:31. I have the understanding each word in the Quran is place by the All Knowing with purpose. My finding is, Quran is very precise. Precise to the level of placing each word. Each word is placed with reasons.

Here is my discovery.

Quran 3:59
"the similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam

amorist

ione2bliv,

The word "hair" is not in the Quran - and with good reasons too. The hair should be covered, not exposed! That's why it cannot be seen in the Quran! But you know very well that the word veil is mentioned in 24:31 - veil is seen, but not hair!!

Now then. The Quran mentions, through 24:31 about extending the veil to cover the breast. So, wearing a veil is mentioned in the Quran. Then the hadith further explains that Muslim women should wear a veil. So how is this hadith in contradiction of the Quran? Or perhaps not accepting covering the hair is not aligned with 10:15?

Do think about it!

always_typo

Originally posted by ione2bliv at 2003-8-18 09:33 PM:


But again, there is no word "sya'run" in all the dressing code instruction in the Quran. If there is please provide to me, then I will open heartedly will accept it.

Dear ione2bliv,

I am a bit curious when you said that unless al Quran specifically said sya'run should be covered then only will u accept the need to cover the hair. How about other parts of the body ie back, navel, thigh, vagina, penis, buttocks, etc. Are there any specific words in the Quran that says that exposing those body parts is haram? If there aren't, can you occasionally expose those body parts to the public?   


always_typo

[ Last edited by always_typo on 21-8-2003 at 11:31 AM ]

Salam

Dear a-t.

Gee, I don't know. Why not you give it a shot and see. Share with me the out come.

If prop. Muhammad was an ekskimo, did his women and followers must wear ekskimo's gear?

Nice to know you a-t...

Peace.

always_typo

Originally posted by ione2bliv at 2003-8-21 02:17 PM:
Salam

Dear a-t.

Gee, I don't know. Why not you give it a shot and see. Share with me the out come.

If prop. Muhammad was an ekskimo, did his women and followers must wear ekskimo's gear?
...

Hmm..
I couldn't try it because I believe my ulamak, who told me that my aurat is "antara pusat dengan lutut" basing on the traditions of the prophet.

I don't think Nabi Muhammad s.a.w will make it a mandatory for his followers to wear the eskimo gear, since being an Arab in reality, he never made it mandatory for us to wear jubah and serbans ...

Originally posted by always_typo at 21-8-2003 02:42 PM:
Hmm..
I couldn't try it because I believe my ulamak, who told me that my aurat is "antara pusat dengan lutut" basing on the traditions of the prophet.

I don't think Nabi Muhammad s.a. ...

Salam A_T,

Thanks for sharing your thought. You mentioned about ulama. I have been thinking about their role in society.

Say they made a fatwa, wrote a book, bla bla bla bla..... He finally has many followers. (the blinds, as well as the not so blind follow him simply, without much thinking).  Life goes on.

I fine day, out of blue, something struck his mind.  He is sured he has made a mistake. He wanted to pull back the book he wrote, and wanted to cancel the previous fatwa he made. But he was 25 minutes too late.  He died. 1000 years went by. He fatwa have been carved on stone, to the extend it has become a religeos dogma, or rather a sub religeon. Deep rooted. Everybody believed in his "supposedly void" fatwa without slightest doubt.

Personally, I do not blame the ulama.  But, I think this is a serious weakness in relying on ulama in totality. This is just my thought. Share me your thought about it.  (Let us do not talk about the "ulama tak berdosa, he just doing his job, bla bla bla..... Judging them is not the concern here.  Let's  leave that matter to God).

Sorry to sway a bit  from thetopic. But your reply just triggers me.
Don't  bother to reply, if you think this  topic, is not your interest or I am not your type...


Salam.

Originally posted by ione2bliv at 21-8-2003 07:48 PM:
Salam A_T,

Thanks for sharing your thought. You mentioned about ulama. I have been thinking about their role in society.

Say they made a fatwa, wrote a book, bla bla bla bla..... He finally  ...

Are u one of the members.. i'm refering to the SISTERS IN ISLAM..

No wonderla..

ibnur

Originally posted by ione2bliv at 2003-8-21 07:48 PM:
I fine day, out of blue, something struck his mind.  He is sured he has made a mistake. He wanted to pull back the book he wrote, and wanted to cancel the previous fatwa he made. But he was 25 minutes too late.  He died. 1000 years went by. He fatwa have been carved on stone, to the extend it has become a religeos dogma, or rather a sub religeon. Deep rooted. Everybody believed in his "supposedly void" fatwa without slightest doubt.

Did you create that story?  Or is it a true life experience?

U sound like u have only one ulamak, poor refferences and that silly goaty bearded old man is making ur life difficult.

Kalau nak tau macamana orang buat fatwa, pergi le mengaji kat mesjid.  Kuliah maghrib tu paid by derma mesjid.  Tanya ustaz tu, macamana orang buat fatwa.  Jangan pandai-pandai buat cerita.  Nanti jadi fitnah, akhirat nanti kau kena cari semua ulamak-ulamak untuk minta maaf, pahala kau bagi dia, dosa dia kau ambik.

Originally posted by ibnur at 22-8-2003 12:20 AM:
Did you create that story?  Or is it a true life experience?

U sound like u have only one ulamak, poor refferences and that silly goaty bearded old man is making ur life difficult.

Kalau nak  ...

Rasanya die refering to logic je utk buat explanation die..sama je ngan Sisters In Islam tu..hehe

always_typo

Originally posted by ione2bliv at 2003-8-21 07:48 PM:
Salam A_T,

Thanks for sharing your thought. You mentioned about ulama. I have been thinking about their role in society.

Say they made a fatwa, wrote a book, bla bla bla bla..... He finally  ...

My comment:

One cannot issue a fatwa simply based on one's mother's practices (like Zainah was doing) or based on pakistanis women living abroad (like what u have done) and expect people to follow the fatwa.

Salam and salute to my sister in Islam, Ione2believe. May Allah continues to give you the courage and strength to help those stuck in blind following and may the faculty of aqal continues to guide you on the the right path.

But do remember Allah guideth only those he chooses.Therefore do not despair by the reactions of those who refuse to belief that what they and their ancestors have been following blindy for so long, may be wrong!

Love and respect, from me.

:stp::stp:

CD-RW

Originally posted by Chemical Ali at 23-8-2003 09:25 PM:
Salam and salute to my sister in Islam, Ione2believe. May Allah continues to give you the courage and strength to help those stuck in blind following and may the faculty of aqal continues to guide  ...

hmmm another 'ione2bliv'....:re: as if sumer org yg ikut ulama taqlid buta...:stp:

Originally posted by always_typo at 22-8-2003 10:57 AM:
My comment:

One cannot issue a fatwa simply based on one's mother's practices (like Zainah was doing) or based on pakistanis women living abroad (like what u have done) and expect people to foll ...

Salam

Dear A_T,

Obviously you were rushing when replying to my post.
I never consider my post was a fatwa. That was only my opinion as a result of my observation. I believe the same apply to Zainah SIS statement. But if you insist  those said by both of us are fatwas, what can I say....

To me  what you said shows how fragile and thin your religeous tolerance toward others who differs from your understanding.

Sad.

Looking back 1000 years ago, Islam came to Tanah Melayu, and spread. Almost ALL Malays in Tanah Melayu converted to Islam (converting from Hinduism, Agnostic, Aethesim and so on and so forth).

If you think carefully, Islam gave lights to the mind of the Malays. The minds of the Malays about godly matters changed. But not the the dressing of the Malays. Go to the muzeum. Look up our traditional dress, in 13th, 14th,...19th century. Has Islam changed that? Has the ulama during those time changed that?

Think again. Islam came to Tanah Melayu through traders and merchants from India doing spice business during those times.  Why the Malays did not copy the Indian merchant dressing style? Why the Malays during those time did not copy the dressing style of the arabs in in the 15th century?

I do not know about you, but to me, there are good explaination and reasons for that.

If you think carefully, all the middle east dressing style only came to Malaysia after Iran revolution back in 1979. Why?
Are going to say, al the while before, 1979, all the muslims were wrong?
All the ulama before 1979 wrongly interpreted Quran  verse 24:31?
If you care to study why, you will find the anwers.
I am sorry, if I have offended you in anyway just by disagreeing with you.

Peace and love from me.


Salam

Originally posted by ione2bliv at 2003-8-25 04:53 PM:
Salam

Dear A_T,

Obviously you were rushing when replying to my post.
I never consider my post was a fatwa. That was only my opinion as a result of my observation. I believe the same apply  ...

Allah knows best what in your heart. Hope you are sincere with what you said and your opinion is base on strong dalil and guidance from Quran/Hadith and not because you want simplicity. May allah guide you/all of us to the true path of Islam.

One thing to remember, we are +1400 yrs from prophet while all the big IMAMs that establish the 4 mashabs are ~100yrs from prophet era and they are vey knowledgeble ,dedicated and respectfull muslims at that time.

awiejdh

aku rasa org macam pempuan tu baik pakai skirt je..merosakkan akidah sendiri dan org lain...

amorist

Originally posted by CD-RW at 2003-8-25 06:52 PM:
kita kena ikut negara kita... negara kita spakat ambik mazhab syafi'e, so ikut je la:sp:

Salah pemikiran begini, saya rasa. Kita ikut sebab kita yakin akan kebenarannya, bukan sebab orang lain buat pilihan untuk kita. Kita ikut kerajaan pun, hanya bila kerajaan suruh kita buat sesuatu yang betul. Kalau kerajaan suruh kita berbalah atau berbunuh sesama Islam, contohnya, kita tak boleh ikut! Oleh itu, ikutlah mazhab Syafie kerana kita yakin akan kebenarannya, bukan sebab disuruh oleh sesiapa.

"..... Tiap-tiap satu umat yang masuk, mengutuk akan saudaranya (golongannya sendiri); hingga apabila mereka semua berhimpun di dalamnya, berkatalah golongan yang akhir mengenai golongan yang pertama di antara mereka: Wahai Tuhan kami, mereka inilah yang telah menyesatkan kami; oleh itu berilah kepada mereka azab seksa yang berlipat ganda dari (azab) Neraka. Allah berfirman: Kamu masing-masing disediakan (azab seksa) yang berlipat ganda tetapi kamu tidak mengetahui." (Al A'raaf 38)

Ayat ini menjelaskan bahawa kalau kita ikut orang lain, dan orang itu salah, maka kita pun bersalah juga!

CD-RW

but what i mean by 'ikut' tu dlm perkara pemilihan mazhab je... bkn bende2 maksiat!

mcm bebudak SIS tu nak ikut pemakaian muslimat kat pakistan le... padehai diorang mazhab lain...

thx 4 correcting my young thought

Originally posted by Gapodio at 25-8-2003 05:36 PM:


One thing to remember, we are +1400 yrs from prophet while all the big IMAMs that establish the 4 mashabs are ~100yrs from prophet era and they are vey knowledgeble ,dedicated and respectfull muslims at that time.

Salam Gapodio,

Thank you for reminding me. I do cherish this kind of communication.  I do pray to God, May He creates more and more Muslims like you. Firm but kind and with high level of religeous tolerance when it comes to the issue of faith.  I do bellieve this attitude was was the attitude of Prohet Muhammad. I do not believe in religeous zealots.

However I do have some reservation to the word in bold. Yes, they were respectfull, knowledable, dedicated. I never dispute that. But again, we must not forget, they were also fallible. Just like you and me. We are free to take or to consider  their views. But in no way they standing in a higher platform than us. They were standing exactly on the same platform with us.
Why? Because, each of us are answerable to God. IN PERSON. In the judgement day, no one will answer on behalf of me. Not even Prophet Muhammad. Everybody will be busy that day.  I am so very sure about this. Quran tells me so.

Peace